Melody? What is melody?

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Melody? What is melody?

Postby Lunafall » 29 Dec 2012 21:20

ok, heres the gist of it. its been about half a year since i produced my first song (under a different name no less) and it was pretty terrible. It hasnt been til now that i had the time and motivation to actually get serious about production, and i really enjoy it. and i get alot of the technical stuff: sound design, mixing, mastering. but when i sit down to actually set notes down on a piano roll, i just... get stuck. im working on a new track, but all i have are my drum loops just sitting there. i feel like i just literally cant write a melody. what should i do? should i start with a harmony first? (i tried that and ended up hating the chord progression i made and couldnt make the melody fit it)

melody general help, please?
no links just yet, those are coming soon!
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby ChocolateChicken » 29 Dec 2012 21:28

A melody is any sequence of notes. As for composition, that isn't really something you can ask other people for help on, apart from music theory and scales. That's like asking for help with coming up with funny jokes.

Sometimes people come up with the melody first and then the chord progression, sometimes the chords come first, it depends. It's really up to your own creativity though.

You should generally come up with your own ideas if you're serious about music/art.
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Nine Volt » 29 Dec 2012 21:28

It really depends on what genre you intend to make.

I usually just derp around on my keyboard until something good comes out (obviously applying my musical knowledge and staying in key and all that).
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Lunafall » 29 Dec 2012 21:31

ChocolateChicken wrote:A melody is any sequence of notes. As for composition, that isn't really something you can ask other people for help on, apart from music theory and scales. That's like asking for help with coming up with funny jokes.

Sometimes people come up with the melody first and then the chord progression, sometimes the chords come first, it depends. It's really up to your own creativity though.

You should generally come up with your own ideas if you're serious about music/art.


ouch

its not like i wanted someone to write a melody for me. i just wanted to know if anyone had tips or something, jeez
no links just yet, those are coming soon!
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Lunafall » 29 Dec 2012 21:33

Nine Volt wrote:It really depends on what genre you intend to make.

I usually just derp around on my keyboard until something good comes out (obviously applying my musical knowledge and staying in key and all that).


im working on a house track

question: so its probably better to know what scale im going to be working with beforehand? i know that sounds like a stupid question, but part of my brains wants to try to come up with a melody first and just apply whatever scale that idea happens to be in to the rest of the track

that probably sounds really weird, sorry :?
no links just yet, those are coming soon!
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby ChocolateChicken » 29 Dec 2012 21:36

Lunafall wrote:ouch

its not like i wanted someone to write a melody for me. i just wanted to know if anyone had tips or something, jeez


Don't take it the wrong way, I said that it depends. You said that sometimes you get stuck and can't write melodies. There's no solution to magically coming up with melodies in that situation; it all depends on your creative ability.

Also learning music theory really helps. And for that, there are tutors available on MLR. And I sent you a message.
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Lunafall » 29 Dec 2012 21:38

ChocolateChicken wrote:
Lunafall wrote:ouch

its not like i wanted someone to write a melody for me. i just wanted to know if anyone had tips or something, jeez


Don't take it the wrong way, I said that it depends. You said that sometimes you get stuck and can't write melodies. There's no solution to magically coming up with melodies in that situation; it all depends on your creative ability.

Also learning music theory really helps.


yea, that came out super dickish, but whatever

i guess i will just start by saying "im definitely writing this song in X scale" and playing around with some notes
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Nine Volt » 29 Dec 2012 21:38

Lunafall wrote:
Nine Volt wrote:It really depends on what genre you intend to make.

I usually just derp around on my keyboard until something good comes out (obviously applying my musical knowledge and staying in key and all that).


im working on a house track

question: so its probably better to know what scale im going to be working with beforehand? i know that sounds like a stupid question, but part of my brains wants to try to come up with a melody first and just apply whatever scale that idea happens to be in to the rest of the track

that probably sounds really weird, sorry :?

Yes, you definitely need to decide on one as you're making the melody or chords, and you need to stay in that scale (for the most part; accidentals can sometimes sound quite nice, but at only half a year of experience I'd say stay in the scale).
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby itroitnyah » 29 Dec 2012 21:40

Open up piano roll and start placing 1/8th notes down. I didn't say try and coordinate, I said do it. Randomly. Well, not randomly, just place a note down, and place down a second one, and a third, and just think up what sounds good coming after each note you place. There's no real way to just open up piano roll and lay down a melody like WAPOW. Melodies do take time and patience to get down and get good at. You aren't experiencing anything out of the normal.
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby ChocolateChicken » 29 Dec 2012 21:46

Lunafall wrote:i guess i will just start by saying "im definitely writing this song in X scale" and playing around with some notes


Lunafall wrote:question: so its probably better to know what scale im going to be working with beforehand? i know that sounds like a stupid question, but part of my brains wants to try to come up with a melody first and just apply whatever scale that idea happens to be in to the rest of the track.


That doesn't sound weird at all; that's actually something that you should keep in mind when composing music, as far as minor scales and major scales. So yes, you should definitely know which scale your song is in or which scale the melody would work best in. Usually it would be either a major scale or a minor scale because those are the two types of scales that all songs are in nowadays.
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Lunafall » 29 Dec 2012 21:53

ChocolateChicken wrote:Usually it would be either a major scale or a minor scale because those are the two types of scales that all songs are in nowadays.


yea i get that. you know im not clueless as far as music theory goes, just really stuck (for instance, i know what a melody is. the name of the thread was a joke. you didnt need to actually define it for me)
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby XXDarkShadow79XX » 29 Dec 2012 23:14

MUSIC. THEORY. LEARN IT.

...

EVER.

I'd love to help you out, but I suck at music theory/melodies too. I just dick around in a random scale that I choose. Here's a melody that I wrote a few months ago from a dubstep song that I hella scrapped (I edited the melody a bit more after this, especially around those crappy quarter notes, but I'm too lazy to find the refined one so whatevs)

https://www.dl.dropbox.com/s/807k9bj0z7 ... 20Test.mp3

So yeah, this was meant to be a longer melody, but I pretty much just chose a scale, (I have completely forgotten what this one is in, it's like A sumthin) find a cool progression of notes, repeat that a few times, edit the repeats so they vary. And sound cool.

Idk, I haven't really written any melodies lately. I love them, but production wise I've always been more of a rhythm guy. :P
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Conduit » 29 Dec 2012 23:22

Get a midi keyboard, or use your computer one too trigger notes. Trust me, playing ideas live before placing them down on a piano role will help immensely.

As for scales and whatnot, I don't actually know the names of any, but over time I've learnt quite a few simply by ear. Spend an hour every once and a while just noodling around on your keyboard, with no intentions of making a song. The improvisation will help you get more comfortable with which notes sound good together, and will eventually give you more confidence when writing leads or any other part of your song.
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Strezzkev » 30 Dec 2012 00:09

Yeah for me melodies are the easiest part =P though I struggle mostly everywhere else. I find the melodies mainly by just mucking around with my keyboard. (my keyboard works with my piano roll, not sure how often DAW's do that) and if you can't do that, hook up some midi if you got it. Playing real time like this helps me express emotion into the melody.

So I'd like to say, that I think a melody is a part of someone.

With that note I'd also suggest what Darkshadow said and get some good info in music theory, then you can understand where some boundaries are to help organize a well sounding melody. I've never actually taken music theory, but I've been involved with jazz band and learn to understood the magic of staying in keys.
successfully writing melodies might be something you have to practice. it could be easy for me cause I use to just make up melodies on a korg I've had for years.

so give it time and good luck!
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Captain Ironhelm » 30 Dec 2012 00:23

I love melodies!

A great place to start learning the basics is http://www.musictheory.net/
Another good resource as far as I've checked is http://musictheoryblog.blogspot.com/
You might have to go over things a couple of times, but the bottom line is you've gotta learn it one way or another.

Once you've got a good foundation, counterpoint can be a great tool for writing melodies. Put too simply, it's writing with multiple voices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoint sets the rules of counterpoint out straight and to the point.
Our beloved Dr. Dissonance wrote up a thread on counterpoint that you may find valuable here:
http://mylittleremix.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5110

Great melodies generally don't jump around very often. At maximum you really won't be wanting to jump more than a 6th, and not often if you do choose to do so.

Also avoid parallel 5ths and 8ths at all costs, as they grate against the ear. Some ways to avoid them are choosing different inversions of the chord or choosing a new chord altogether.

An easy-peasy super-lazy way of staying in consonance (at least in FL) is to flesh out the chords on the piano roll and extend them an octave above and below. Open another piano roll so the chords from the 1st are ghosted, and then you can place notes anywhere the ghost bricks are, and you'll never go dissonant!

Following theory knowledge, you can build up a melody systematically regardless of inspiration. I can't really relate to or promote goofing around randomly with a keyboard to be a solid way to make a great melody. If the melody seems nice but seems to be missing the magic, change up the timing and put some drive/groove into it! Dot the notes, stutter, syncopate. Just whatever it takes to give it the drive it needs.

If you have anything more specific, I'd be glad to help where I can!
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Navron » 30 Dec 2012 12:03

Creating a good melody is probably the most creative part of music. It's the part that gives your piece that flair, and ties everything in the song together. To create a good melody you need to have a solid idea of what your song is about. If you're just going for what would sound cool, you'll eventually get a melody, but chances are it won't really sell the story very well.

You also have motifs. Elements that work with the melody, but aren't necessarily, the melody. A lot of video game music is built on motifs, with little to no melody. Obviously there are some big exceptions (like Halo), but most background music for games tends to keep a certain feel with hooks and motifs, vs an actual melodic line that the player likely won't pay attention to when they're in the middle of a battle.

I grew up playing guitar, so when I think of motifs, I think of the term, "riffs," described as, "It's a brief, recognizable section of a song, often repeated."

Everybody recognizes the piano intro to Rainbow Factory. That's the riff/motif of the song, whereas the actual melody is the sequence of notes that Glaze sings after the 8 bar piano intro.

Think of a story to your song. Think of a motif or riff that helps sell that story, and then create a melody that ties in with your motif.
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Lunafall » 30 Dec 2012 16:04

XXDarkShadow79XX wrote:MUSIC. THEORY. LEARN IT.

...

EVER.

I'd love to help you out, but I suck at music theory/melodies too. I just dick around in a random scale that I choose. Here's a melody that I wrote a few months ago from a dubstep song that I hella scrapped (I edited the melody a bit more after this, especially around those crappy quarter notes, but I'm too lazy to find the refined one so whatevs)

https://www.dl.dropbox.com/s/807k9bj0z7 ... 20Test.mp3

So yeah, this was meant to be a longer melody, but I pretty much just chose a scale, (I have completely forgotten what this one is in, it's like A sumthin) find a cool progression of notes, repeat that a few times, edit the repeats so they vary. And sound cool.

Idk, I haven't really written any melodies lately. I love them, but production wise I've always been more of a rhythm guy. :P

haha, yea i get you
i think i might be more of a sound design/mixing type of guy

Flatflish wrote:Get a midi keyboard, or use your computer one too trigger notes. Trust me, playing ideas live before placing them down on a piano role will help immensely.

As for scales and whatnot, I don't actually know the names of any, but over time I've learnt quite a few simply by ear. Spend an hour every once and a while just noodling around on your keyboard, with no intentions of making a song. The improvisation will help you get more comfortable with which notes sound good together, and will eventually give you more confidence when writing leads or any other part of your song.

i do have a non-midi keyboard that ive been banging on to try and piece something together

Strezzkev wrote:Yeah for me melodies are the easiest part =P though I struggle mostly everywhere else. I find the melodies mainly by just mucking around with my keyboard. (my keyboard works with my piano roll, not sure how often DAW's do that) and if you can't do that, hook up some midi if you got it. Playing real time like this helps me express emotion into the melody.

So I'd like to say, that I think a melody is a part of someone.

With that note I'd also suggest what Darkshadow said and get some good info in music theory, then you can understand where some boundaries are to help organize a well sounding melody. I've never actually taken music theory, but I've been involved with jazz band and learn to understood the magic of staying in keys.
successfully writing melodies might be something you have to practice. it could be easy for me cause I use to just make up melodies on a korg I've had for years.

so give it time and good luck!

yup. imma have to get that practice in

Captain Ironhelm wrote:I love melodies!

A great place to start learning the basics is http://www.musictheory.net/
Another good resource as far as I've checked is http://musictheoryblog.blogspot.com/
You might have to go over things a couple of times, but the bottom line is you've gotta learn it one way or another.

Once you've got a good foundation, counterpoint can be a great tool for writing melodies. Put too simply, it's writing with multiple voices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoint sets the rules of counterpoint out straight and to the point.
Our beloved Dr. Dissonance wrote up a thread on counterpoint that you may find valuable here:
http://mylittleremix.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5110

Great melodies generally don't jump around very often. At maximum you really won't be wanting to jump more than a 6th, and not often if you do choose to do so.

Also avoid parallel 5ths and 8ths at all costs, as they grate against the ear. Some ways to avoid them are choosing different inversions of the chord or choosing a new chord altogether.

An easy-peasy super-lazy way of staying in consonance (at least in FL) is to flesh out the chords on the piano roll and extend them an octave above and below. Open another piano roll so the chords from the 1st are ghosted, and then you can place notes anywhere the ghost bricks are, and you'll never go dissonant!

Following theory knowledge, you can build up a melody systematically regardless of inspiration. I can't really relate to or promote goofing around randomly with a keyboard to be a solid way to make a great melody. If the melody seems nice but seems to be missing the magic, change up the timing and put some drive/groove into it! Dot the notes, stutter, syncopate. Just whatever it takes to give it the drive it needs.

If you have anything more specific, I'd be glad to help where I can!

bless this post! thanks for the info about 5ths and 8ths, i will absolutely have to keep that in mind. i will also absolutely read up on counterpoints. (my only thing is that i use Ableton not FL and i dont find staying within a selected scale to be difficult on Ableton's piano roll anyway)

Navron wrote:Creating a good melody is probably the most creative part of music. It's the part that gives your piece that flair, and ties everything in the song together. To create a good melody you need to have a solid idea of what your song is about. If you're just going for what would sound cool, you'll eventually get a melody, but chances are it won't really sell the story very well.

You also have motifs. Elements that work with the melody, but aren't necessarily, the melody. A lot of video game music is built on motifs, with little to no melody. Obviously there are some big exceptions (like Halo), but most background music for games tends to keep a certain feel with hooks and motifs, vs an actual melodic line that the player likely won't pay attention to when they're in the middle of a battle.

I grew up playing guitar, so when I think of motifs, I think of the term, "riffs," described as, "It's a brief, recognizable section of a song, often repeated."

Everybody recognizes the piano intro to Rainbow Factory. That's the riff/motif of the song, whereas the actual melody is the sequence of notes that Glaze sings after the 8 bar piano intro.

Think of a story to your song. Think of a motif or riff that helps sell that story, and then create a melody that ties in with your motif.

ahhh, yes yes
this makes sense... i will have to think about it for a while



THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR INPUT
no links just yet, those are coming soon!
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Re: Melody? What is melody?

Postby Stu Beef » 30 Dec 2012 18:34

I think, in this specific case, it is possible to be inundated with information. I find that the most effective melodies are not approached systematically, but rather, intuitively. What makes you want to hum along to a familiar tune? Well, that could take ages to explain in full. What makes you want to start humming your own tunes? That is a personal journey.

If you find yourself wanting to write, I say fill yourself with so much music that it just spills out of you. Listen to everything, sing along, improvise over it, clap out rhythms over it. If you listen to enough, you'll notice patterns and preferred styles should become innate. You can get pretty far without worrying about any technical aspects, but if you don't have the creative ability/energy inside of you, you won't go anywhere. I'm not at all advocating that you remain ignorant of theory, but how you use that knowledge is worth a hell of a lot more than just knowing it.
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