"Balloon Party 3" - Academy of Power

[Freewave]

There's an artist called Frederic Robinson who's famous in the DnB scene for making unique, experimental tracks.
Here's one of my favourites of his:
https://soundcloud.com/fredericrobinson/frederic-robinson-off-topic

Would it fit if I made something like that? Because I'm not sure other artists have tried anything like this before, so it's not generic or anything. Just want to make sure.

Again, we can't answer your questions here. Your best bet is just trying to best music you can using the proposed guidelines.

[Evdog]

Your best bet is just trying to best music you can using the proposed guidelines.

From a submitter's point of view, it is very frustrating that the organizers give a vague explanation of what they're
looking for ("Hard and Party Orientated", "Fast and Stylish", "Experimental and Technical"), they refuse to elaborate on said explanation when requested, and then have your theme-following entry rejected (Automatic Jack - "Only For You Dash", Freewave - "Reckless") whilst some of the accepted tracks don't even fit the initially stated criteria at all (Makkon - "The Little Toy Shop", DatWhackerProducer - "Old Mixtapes". Not saying they're bad tracks, btw).

This hasn't happened just once, but twice, and it looks as if it's about to happen a third time.

[Bronies Are Cool]

Hopefully regardless of good/bad judging, we can a least have some fun with this. It's cool to collab and learn new things

[Esttel]

Yeah, collabs would definitely be an awesome way to shape something unique. Saying that though, I agree with Evdog in that the lack of what they're looking for can really stump the artists. In anycase, we should all just try our best and enjoy whatever we make - it's all for fun, right guys?

[Freewave]

Your best bet is just trying to best music you can using the proposed guidelines.

From a submitter's point of view, it is very frustrating that the organizers give a vague explanation of what they're
looking for ("Hard and Party Orientated", "Fast and Stylish", "Experimental and Technical"), they refuse to elaborate on said explanation when requested, and then have your theme-following entry rejected (Automatic Jack - "Only For You Dash", Freewave - "Reckless") whilst some of the accepted tracks don't even fit the initially stated criteria at all (Makkon - "The Little Toy Shop", DatWhackerProducer - "Old Mixtapes". Not saying they're bad tracks, btw).

This hasn't happened just once, but twice, and it looks as if it's about to happen a third time.

It's actually funny because i talked with Makkon a little while ago and his 2 tracks on his BP he said have nothing to do with MLP. I guess I expected there was a connection since they were on there but i don't think that changes that they were still good music and that's why they made it. As you said Evdog, my track Reckless was very much in theme and actually tried to be an analogy for Lightning Dust making the Wonderbolts / Myself trying to make it on the album (and both perhaps being overtly Reckless in that approach but maybe worthy). But i saw some very mixed feedback from a few people about the concept before the judges passed, so i knew that it was just as likely going to go over a lot of people's heads. That's just how it is sometimes. Not everyone is going to like or "get" your track, espcially if you DO try something different.

What it often comes down to is just the person who is judging it and how they react to that music. What's important to me (pony theme, doing these differently, fitting the concept of the album) might not be the same for another (more critical of the mixing/mastering, doesn't care about an overtly pony theme, ok with something more traditional). That's why in the end its a crapshoot on if you'll make the album, especially if there is ONE judge for a whole parent genre (orchestral, rap, rock) as cfry has outlined for this event. Cfry is looking for judges currently in that fashion and it's up to him who he picks (from who volunteers). They'll remain anonymous as usual. There's no way to know or say how that will turn out.

If there's a good turnout only the best will make it in BUT some great tracks will still be left off. It's been that way every time and people need to prepare for that likely outcome (85% rejection rate in the past?). That's why there was an Afterparty for the original BP, and 2 additional editions for Rainbow & Rooted. That really is for the best as its the only way not to have some hurt feelings over this process is to later include any good runner-ups. This process is not that different from sending your track into EQD and having a spotlight, motd, or no reply at all. That too is very difficult and just as demeaning sometimes but is part of making music in this fandom.

But there's nothing wrong with doing your best, trying to fit their goals, having your track turn out as it does (and that often is different then where you intended it to go), and just being satisfied that you did your best. Get some feedback as you make the track and see if you can't fix those problems in advance. If it doesn't make the album, include it on perhaps the follow-up, or release it yourself on your own. Just have a realistic idea of how this process works and don't beat yourself up if it's less than you dreamed. I can't say if I've ever been thrilled with how each of the past 2 albums went as they each had quite a bit of drama attached to each of them, but they hopefully still did more good than harm. This one likely won't be any different.


Keep in mind we'll have Remix Wars will take place in summer, there will be no judges or no official album for that but it will hopefully be a lot of fun and community focused. It will be a bigger batch of music and with a lot more wildly varying quality but it's also a great way to meet people, hang out, and hear some cool music. Different event, set up differently, and hopefully will be just as community unifying :) Seed of Kindness, Soft Spectrum, and other events will likely be around as well.

[Ducks Unlimited]

If someone's gonna be judging it then we need a bit more criteria then "good," though

[Evdog]

If someone's gonna be judging it then we need a bit more criteria then "good," though

^^^
This. I think I speak for many of us when I say that we'd appreciate a more specific set of criteria, and the assurance that the entries will be held up against the established criteria.

And yes, the Remix Wars are good to create content for, but the lack of quality control saps all the motivation to put one's heart and soul into the piece.

[S.P.P]

If someone's gonna be judging it then we need a bit more criteria then "good," though

^^^
This. I think I speak for many of us when I say that we'd appreciate a more specific set of criteria, and the assurance that the entries will be held up against the established criteria.

Try talking to Fry. He's on Skype fairly regularly and he's active on Tumblr. He doesn't use this site so he won't address your issues here.

[Freewave]

If someone's gonna be judging it then we need a bit more criteria then "good," though

^^^
This. I think I speak for many of us when I say that we'd appreciate a more specific set of criteria, and the assurance that the entries will be held up against the established criteria.

Try talking to Fry. He's on Skype fairly regularly and he's active on Tumblr. He doesn't use this site so he won't address your issues here.

I agree with Pyre if you want more clarification (and that should be passed along to mlr if he responds). Also keep in mind that each BP event HAS been rather open ended. This isn't new. They don't want to limit creativity and have people adapt so much that they don't fit their existing strengths. What they've asked people for can be achieved but in the end they'll take the best music they get whether they tightly fit the goals or do not.

When MLR looked like it might take part Makkon, Fluffaton, and I argued for 2 hrs about what this event should look like and it's very easy for others to have different views of how they want it to be. Having it be open ended and not locked down into a rigid guidelines and rule system allows more creativity frankly and that may not be a bad thing at all.

[PixelPerfect]

Honestly, I was sort of hoping that at least some of the money would go to cons. I have never been to one myself, and the way things have been going lately, I don't think I can afford it this year.

Eeyup. I'm going to likely rule myself out for a third year as well.

Oh? So Cfry isn't even giving the profits to BronyQuest?!?

Now I'm really out...I was actually considering this for a minute


For anyone that's coming here that doesn't know Balloon Party's history, let me explain a little

I wasn't around for the first one, but the idea was to get pony music artists to cons (Everfree, BronyCon, BUCK, for the most part) ...it kinda was a circlejerk of popular musicians (most of which are cool people...hell, I'm friends with a few of them!)
That was 100% No Feeble Cheering

Then we had the second album (I don't recall the name atm...had the pink cover)
It was a smaller album, aimed at getting a bit more money for the fundraiser...and it worked, as far as I know...and it was good...not so much of a circlejerk, iirc

Apple 2012 was something by Avi that (iirc) was just mixes and mashups...(from the con, right?)

Here's where I joined the community: Rainbow and Rooted: Fours Fall Down
The second installment, but 4th album of the Balloon Party series

It was a great album (highlights: Skorp, BassCat, Thomas H, Aoshi, Psy...I could go on)
It was a lot of less popular musicians (though we got Silva, who just made a VIP of his BP track....even though he said he was leaving...GET A NEW SONG SANDRASILVAHOUND :3 - and Tombstone...*coughModTalkcough*)
It made...less money...that's what happens when you have nonames on it

To help, and to get more of the submissions in, R&R released One Last Shot
An album where we were supposed to totally revamp our track, but not master it properly (WTF)
This album went under a LOT of controversy...we, in a week, were supposed to remake a track, from scratch, supposedly AND not master it correctly
Okay
What happens when we do master properly? YOU DONT GET ON (See "Rejected and Revised: Won't Back Down")
But, we got more money...and Aoshi got two more tracks in :D

THEN we had some issues
Cfry (the one who owns the Bandcamp, PayPal, Facebook, etc for Balloon Party) kinda just deleted everything (IDFK why...nobody has an answer for me)
He has since re uploaded them elsewhere (check his tumblr, or ExoBassTis' Google Doc)
Now, without even talking with MLR staff (or at least, anyone I've talked to...) started BP3: Twilight Edition

...and now I've been told he's not giving the money back to the original purpose...? WHAT THE HECK WHY IS THIS HAPPENING EVEN?

This has been a Pixel Perfect Story Time

[S.P.P]

Honestly, I was sort of hoping that at least some of the money would go to cons. I have never been to one myself, and the way things have been going lately, I don't think I can afford it this year.

Eeyup. I'm going to likely rule myself out for a third year as well.

Oh? So Cfry isn't even giving the profits to BronyQuest?!?

Now I'm really out...I was actually considering this for a minute


For anyone that's coming here that doesn't know Balloon Party's history, let me explain a little

I wasn't around for the first one, but the idea was to get pony music artists to cons (Everfree, BronyCon, BUCK, for the most part) ...it kinda was a circlejerk of popular musicians (most of which are cool people...hell, I'm friends with a few of them!)
That was 100% No Feeble Cheering

Then we had the second album (I don't recall the name atm...had the pink cover)
It was a smaller album, aimed at getting a bit more money for the fundraiser...and it worked, as far as I know...and it was good...not so much of a circlejerk, iirc

Apple 2012 was something by Avi that (iirc) was just mixes and mashups...(from the con, right?)

Here's where I joined the community: Rainbow and Rooted: Fours Fall Down
The second installment, but 4th album of the Balloon Party series

It was a great album (highlights: Skorp, BassCat, Thomas H, Aoshi, Psy...I could go on)
It was a lot of less popular musicians (though we got Silva, who just made a VIP of his BP track....even though he said he was leaving...GET A NEW SONG SANDRASILVAHOUND :3 - and Tombstone...*coughModTalkcough*)
It made...less money...that's what happens when you have nonames on it

To help, and to get more of the submissions in, R&R released One Last Shot
An album where we were supposed to totally revamp our track, but not master it properly (WTF)
This album went under a LOT of controversy...we, in a week, were supposed to remake a track, from scratch, supposedly AND not master it correctly
Okay
What happens when we do master properly? YOU DONT GET ON (See "Rejected and Revised: Won't Back Down")
But, we got more money...and Aoshi got two more tracks in :D

THEN we had some issues
Cfry (the one who owns the Bandcamp, PayPal, Facebook, etc for Balloon Party) kinda just deleted everything (IDFK why...nobody has an answer for me)
He has since re uploaded them elsewhere (check his tumblr, or ExoBassTis' Google Doc)
Now, without even talking with MLR staff (or at least, anyone I've talked to...) started BP3: Twilight Edition

...and now I've been told he's not giving the money back to the original purpose...? WHAT THE HECK WHY IS THIS HAPPENING EVEN?

This has been a Pixel Perfect Story Time

Dude you're about a month late for this. The matter has already been discussed at length here.

[ExoBassTix]

And just so you don't confuse people, and to repeat what I already told you,
I did not make that damn GDoc, Pixel!

xD

And if you want I'd love to tell you on Skype, again, why Circuitfry did what he did. Not gonna do so here because it's not necessary one bit.

[Freewave]

Alright, enough of that hopefully. I echo your frustration Pixel, but its easier to opt out now rather than dreg up the past. Hopefully people are clear on the changes and why it will be a bit different this time.

If anyone gets any updates from Cfry on this event then please thrown them in here.

[PixelPerfect]

Alright

Not going to quote everyone

Sorry about the big post that solved nothing...just got pissed off at stuff I read and decided to rant

Also...exo...yeah, I need to remember that XD

[ExoBassTix]

Also...exo...yeah, I need to remember that XD

You should know how much I forget things :P
As in, I forget so much it's not even funny.

[Navron]

If you're wanting to back out because the album isn't focused on raising funds for musicians, you may want to reevaluate the reason why you're making music in the first place.

Personally, I'm starting to despise this annual album that keeps coming around, for reasons people have already mentioned. It feels like every year I put my heart and soul into a track based on their guidelines, and then the album comes out and I'm like, "Oh, so this is what they meant by, (insert album guidelines here)."

This album is no different, although according to the guidelines, this theme fits right up my alley, as I often have a more experimental sound, and my mixing quality has been improving greatly.

Watch me and many others fail 3 years in a row because our experimental sound that we've always had doesn't fit what the judges consider, "experimental."

You can't have, "experimental," as a judging criteria. It's simply too vague, and quite honestly it's the most vague guidelines for this annual album we've ever had before, which means more people getting butthurt because they don't understand what the judges are looking for.

As a hunch, I'm pretty sure by experimental they're going to be looking more for complextro, but go ahead and stay away from these genres since they have a 100% denial rate so far:
- Ambient
- Full Orchestral

Considering my own, "experimental," sound is a mix between orchestral elements using electronic sound design and ambient pads, I'll just go ahead and start writing my butthurt rejection statement now.

[Stuntddude]

I'm gonna go ahead and focus on projects that I'm not guaranteed to be rejected from and that aren't surrounded by ridiculous amounts of drama, to be honest. I haven't been around for the previous of these, but I don't exactly have confidence in this one's success, given what I've seen so far.

[Freewave]

If you're wanting to back out because the album isn't focused on raising funds for musicians, you may want to reevaluate the reason why you're making music in the first place.

I just wanted to make one reply on this although i agree with just about EVERYTHING else you wrote Navron. I know it's long but excuse the rant because I'm tired of this statement said by different people (especially those pushing for the general charity). People like myself have supported those who've gone to bronycon's in the past on others people's dime through the prev balloon party events. Those people had opportunities to truly connect with each other, see the full extent of the fandom, and build better friendships that likely still last today. There is a considerable difference between meeting someone in person and hanging out, and doing that online on skype. Currently you can find the same people performing at different conventions how who are paid to travel by convention organizers because they have the experience, the connections, and the fanbase to perform. That same crew came through town to my local convention and frankly kept to themselves and hung out together in their hotel rooms. To them it's a "business" or a "career" (or they prefer to only hangout with their close friends which isn't wrong) while for many of us we just want to meet other musicians (our "peers") and have an opportunity to experience a big brony convention. To see this fandom in person. Is it that bad to dream or hope for that opportunity?

There weren't a lot of naysayers when this was a fundraiser for musicians originally and once it came to a batch of newer musicians or people who've sat out in prior years turn to PERHAPS go people began to question their motives. That's pretty crass. Especially for people here who've never charged money for the music, who don't see pony music as a "career", and who give their free time to work in the community they still care about. I was hoping the community could still take care of each other and we could expect fans to shell out $5 for a 50 track album from the best of the current community and INVEST back into our own musical community, like we had previously. But hey maybe generosity IS dead and we should all start charging for our amateur music if we REALLY want to go and we can't afford it currently. We can go it alone.

After all people are rushing into support c-list musicians right? Evdog's New Sincerity album made a whopping $45 which most of us just threw Ev's way since he spent 1/2 a year getting friends to make the album with him and he was on at least 1/2 the tracks. Jeff Burgess's amazing last album sold a whopping 86 copies despite NYE Everfree streams, a solo EQD feature, guest spots, and plenty of FIMM plugging. Do those efforts to "go it alone" fill you with hope? Do we want every musicians to be charging for their tracks when so much of this music was free before so they can afford to travel?

It certainly makes sense to give money to people in countries who are starving but it also made sense 2 years ago when No Feeble Cheering was a top bandcamp seller and worked. That's also why we have Seeds of Kindness (which wasn't "pay what you want" incidentally) and made tens of thousands for those general charities. I still think that the ideas behind the original BP were sound and I'm tired of people saying that they were inherently selfish. Current musicians will never have those same perks as those who came before them are not WRONG for expecting that other musicians still in this community should still look out for each other (even if BP is essentially a competition). A charity event for musicians was just that and i frankly thought we needed that now more than ever as fractured as things are. To make new friendships and bonds thru bronycons and the event itself.

But again this IS past tense to me. It's clear that ship has sailed (as it was originally setup).

Hopefully people can find something good about the process now if they want to take part in it (as it's currently setup) as everything else is somewhat the same. There can still be some great music from the community in an easily digestable album format.

[ExoBassTix]

If you're wanting to back out because the album isn't focused on raising funds for musicians, you may want to reevaluate the reason why you're making music in the first place.

I just wanted to make one reply on this although i agree with just about EVERYTHING else you wrote Navron. I know it's long but excuse the rant because I'm tired of this statement said by different people (especially those pushing for the general charity). People like myself have supported those who've gone to bronycon's in the past on others people's dime through the prev balloon party events. Those people had opportunities to truly connect with each other, see the full extent of the fandom, and build better friendships that likely still last today. There is a considerable difference between meeting someone in person and hanging out, and doing that online on skype. Currently you can find the same people performing at different conventions how who are paid to travel by convention organizers because they have the experience, the connections, and the fanbase to perform. That same crew came through town to my local convention and frankly kept to themselves and hung out together in their hotel rooms. To them it's a "business" or a "career" (or they prefer to only hangout with their close friends which isn't wrong) while for many of us we just want to meet other musicians (our "peers") and have an opportunity to experience a big brony convention. To see this fandom in person. Is it that bad to dream or hope for that opportunity?

No, and while I share that dream, I think it's not worth the futile effort to try to convince people that our dream is better than theirs.
I do gotta say that with changing plans, that didn't have anything wrong with them, we're actually boosting distanciation behaviour that is present in almost (?) all well-known brony musicians. We kinda just hold out the white flag, tell them they won.

There weren't a lot of naysayers when this was a fundraiser for musicians originally and once it came to a batch of newer musicians or people who've sat out in prior years turn to PERHAPS go people began to question their motives. That's pretty crass. Especially for people here who've never charged money for the music, who don't see pony music as a "career", and who give their free time to work in the community they still care about. I was hoping the community could still take care of each other and we could expect fans to shell out $5 for a 50 track album from the best of the current community and INVEST back into our own musical community, like we had previously. But hey maybe generosity IS dead and we should all start charging for our amateur music if we REALLY want to go and we can't afford it currently. We can go it alone.

After all people are rushing into support c-list musicians right? Evdog's New Sincerity album made a whopping $45 which most of us just threw Ev's way since he spent 1/2 a year getting friends to make the album with him and he was on at least 1/2 the tracks. Jeff Burgess's amazing last album sold a whopping 86 copies despite NYE Everfree streams, a solo EQD feature, guest spots, and plenty of FIMM plugging. Do those efforts to "go it alone" fill you with hope? Do we want every musicians to be charging for their tracks when so much of this music was free before so they can afford to travel?

It certainly makes sense to give money to people in countries who are starving but it also made sense 2 years ago when No Feeble Cheering was a top bandcamp seller and worked. That's also why we have Seeds of Kindness (which wasn't "pay what you want" incidentally) and made tens of thousands for those general charities. I still think that the ideas behind the original BP were sound and I'm tired of people saying that they were inherently selfish. Current musicians will never have those same perks as those who came before them are not WRONG for expecting that other musicians still in this community should still look out for each other (even if BP is essentially a competition). A charity event for musicians was just that and i frankly thought we needed that now more than ever as fractured as things are. To make new friendships and bonds thru bronycons and the event itself.

I applaud you, for this is very much the way I think of it. Then again, we're pretty much repeating past arguments. I realize that there are two sides of the discussion, pro-charity and pro-convention. Have always been since the discussion became a thing (which was spurred by Circuitfry and you guys' need to make the poll). People shaped their opinion, and stuck to it, making it stronger with more reasoning of their own. We might have our reasons to want money to go to convention (which it won't, mind you), but others might have reasons that, for them, weigh a whole lot heavier that speak in favor of money to charity.

If you're wanting to back out because the album isn't focused on raising funds for musicians, you may want to reevaluate the reason why you're making music in the first place.

I make music because I want to and because I want to express myself. I don't need to send my work in to a huge event to feel like I've accomplished something. For me personally it's a no because Balloon Party is a big, professional project that changed its direction without any reason (there was no disagreement with the way it was first, except with Circuitfry himself (now that I think of it, this sounds like the Freewave-getting-banned thing all over)). That's not something I really like. (And please know I have nothing against Circuitfry, I just have something against his actions.)

Note that I'm just making my point. I really don't understand why we're in the wrong for wanting to have things stay the way it was.
I see most others have already made up their mind about contributing yes or no. I am gonna wait out (which contradicts to what I've said before but fuck that). I got a track in the work that definitely fits the vague description, but I'm gonna go at it on my own pace and will see if I find it worth it to send it to BP3 or not. I find staying true to the message of my music SO much more important than "ohmigosh I is teh populurz nao I'M ON BP3!!!"

I repeat, this is just the way I think of it, and whether you let this affect your own opinion is wholly up to you.



Thereby I'd also like to say that everything that had to be said about what happened has long already been said, hence why I didn't begin about it again. I hope people can get their (current) opinion to themselves to end the challenging discussion (because, after all, this discussion is all about charity vs convention and ideals vs popularity), and either ignore or enjoy BP3 and its development :)

[CitricAcid]

I half agree with what Navron said about reevaluating the reason you're making music. If music is a business to you, then it is perfectly reasonable to not work on a project if you aren't getting anything out of it (that is of value to you). However, if music is a business to you, then Balloon Party probably shouldn't be very high on your list of prospects in the first place.

If you're making music for fun, art, or any other reason, then it really shouldn't matter what it's for as long as you aren't morally opposed to it.

[Callenby]

Why can't we just make the best music we can and try to enjoy ourselves? If we make it to the album, great, if not, oh well. Que sera, sera.

[Bronies Are Cool]

Why can't we just make the best music we can and try to enjoy ourselves? If we make it to the album, great, if not, oh well. Que sera, sera.

this guy ^^^^ 100%

[Stuntddude]

The issue with that is that there's nothing stopping you from just making the same quality of music anyways. If you're looking to have fun making music on a theme, cool, there are a myriad of other events that serve that purpose much better. If you're looking to contribute to a community album, great, there are a myriad of other community albums (brony and non) that you'd be better off involving yourself in. The answer to "why can't we just make the best music we can and try to enjoy ourselves?" is, "but don't we all do that anyway? How is balloon party supposed to help?"

Not to rain on anyone's parade, that is. That's just how I see it.

[ExoBassTix]

I agree to your point, and it's a fresh new insight for me. But I do believe that this doesn't necessarily have to be a problem. I guess others can (or probably will) have their own opinion on this though.
Making music the way you make music is the best way to make music, in my opinion.

[Swedish Horse Mafia]

I'm down.
Maybe a sick vocal track?