Creating 'Emotional' Orchestra

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Creating 'Emotional' Orchestra

Postby PonE-Sharp » 28 Apr 2013 04:08

I'm having an issue with creating orchestral pieces that aren't in or near tutti. Basically, it seems like the less instruments I put into a piece, the worse I get. I'm fine with larger orchestra, but so is every other amateur composer. I don't want to be that guy that only does 'le epik battel moosic', I'd like to create calmer, flowing pieces, like World of Warcraft's 'Twilight Highlands', or How to Train Your Dragon's 'Forbidden Friendship.' Yet, the softer my instruments, the more my mind seems to cramp up, and I don't understand why. It's incredibly frustrating.
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Re: Creating 'Emotional' Orchestra

Postby itroitnyah » 28 Apr 2013 07:11

Yeah, putting less instruments into your music and getting worse isn't a huge surprise there :lol: That's like trying to make dubstep with just a pad. A lot of the quieter more relaxing music has plenty of instruments as well. What makes them so relaxing is the way the instruments are played, obviously. But it also has to do with the melodies, rhythms and harmonies. "le epik battel moosik" is often faster paced to give the listener an adrenaline rush. So to make soothing and calm music you really want to slow it down, lower the attack on the strings, make the notes a bit more drawn out, mix the higher pitched instruments to be more of the center of attention, etc. Like in the Forbidden Friendship song, it's often the bell melody or violin that are the center of attention, the lower cellos or other strings are often sitting in the back, creating some sort of atmosphere. Creating specific emotions in music is hard to explain just how to do exactly, but a lot of it is listening to a song similar to what you want to make and listening for how it's structured, composed and what all when into it.
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Re: Creating 'Emotional' Orchestra

Postby Alycs » 28 Apr 2013 08:38

Okay, going a little against what itroitnyah said; one of the techniques that you have to learn how to use to make orchestral music with only a few instruments at a time is Counterpoint. Its a method of writing music that doesn't rely specifically on chord sequences but on the way individual notes interact with each other, and was used in the Baroque Era. Using it, you are able to take 2 or more "voices" or melody lines and make them into a single song:


By using this, you are able to get the effect you want. Assign each instrument its own "voice", and then you can either blend them together, play them solo, or swap the voicings around to get a completely different feeling.

Read these websites to see more about it:
http://music.columbia.edu/~chris/ctrpnt.html
http://hucbald.blogspot.com/2008/07/how ... on_26.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcqrGLvs95M

Also, look at music such as Gregorian Chants, Bach, Handel, and even Jazz (to a point) to see how to use this voicing in practice.
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Re: Creating 'Emotional' Orchestra

Postby Lying Pink » 28 Apr 2013 10:01

(Apologies in advance for the fairly long post - it could probably be written a lot shorter, but I'm bad at condensing my thoughts.)

Agree with the importance of counterpoint here. Worth starting with the earlier stuff (renaissance/baroque counterpoint) and expanding forwards, maybe? -- earlier counterpoint is more restrictive tonally and easier to grasp the basics of, and the closer you get to the present day the more directions and possibilities open up, and at the same time the more complex it gets -- 20th Century classical composers like Bartok and Scriabin and, as Alycs said, jazz musicians, often work within tonal systems, but very complicated or open ones.

Probably also worth having a look at the basics of orchestration - the way a piece is arranged, which notes are played on which instruments, which are doubled in different octaves, the different sounds you can get from instruments depending on the range and manner in which they are played... can all have profound effects on the way a piece sounds, especially in more stripped down works. When you're writing for only a few instruments, little effects like vibrato, pitch alterations and volume swells can have a huge impact on how well the piece's emotions are conveyed. Also, have a listen to some chamber ensemble pieces and string quartets, even pieces for a single instrument. If possible, it's good to have a copy of the score to hand as you're listening, so you can have a look at what's going on in the music when you hear something you like and would like to replicate (IMSLP and the Gutenberg Sheet Music Project are good for this). If there's music from a video game you like the sound of, see if you can find a midi of it (VGMusic is the go-to site for this, but if the midi you want isn't there, try Googling) and plug the midi into your DAW, or into sheet music software with midi support (Musescore is hit and miss when it comes to interpreting midis accurately, but is still probably the best free option out there) and have a look at the way the piece is put together, what exactly it is about the piece that makes it 'emotional', be it chords, the intervals the melody uses, the arrangement... On the subject of suggested reading for orchestration, I don't have any sites to hand (though I'm sure there are plenty), but the book Orchestral Technique by Gordon Jacob is good.

(Bit of a tangent: Modern/contemporary composers are often very concerned with silence, texture, space and so on, and so are also good for coming up with ideas for interesting ways to use sounds, extended techniques, space and so on to give a piece more character - even if you're writing tonally these techniques can add a lot of character and interest to sparsely orchestrated pieces. In that vein I'd recommend giving a listen to (and if possible, reading the sheet music along with) any of Toru Takemitsu's chamber work, anything by Penderecki, Crumb, Varèse or really any 20th/21st-century composer who does small ensemble work. Find a piece that does something you like, see if you can get your hands on the sheet music if possible, and try to replicate the sound yourself in the DAW.)

Sorry for the length, and the tangents. Hope this was of some use.

(Edit: partially agree with itroitnyah about the higher-pitched instruments -- that's certainly one way to do it. Then again, high-pitched instruments can be aggressive and piercing (see the George Crumb I linked), while lower pitched instruments (especially cellos oh god cellos *melts into puddle of goo*) can be so very beautiful (clicky and clicky). Depends how you use 'em.)
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Re: Creating 'Emotional' Orchestra

Postby vladnuke » 28 Apr 2013 10:53

Yo, I'd just go through the Homestuck albums, lots of simple tunes with great examples of soft orchestra done right, in chiptune form. Single elements just need to be dressed up. Plucked strings are good, glockenspiel is good(use in moderation), and just lots of single use mallet instruments will do you well. Make sure to clean them up as much at first, then add some dirt back in to eccentuate the softness.

Also woodwinds are good to use. Use them as you would violins, and have the violins take the melody. Everything else is just the beat and some flourish.

After that, it's all composition, so it's all on you to decide what emotion you want to bring out of your softer orchestra.
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Re: Creating 'Emotional' Orchestra

Postby the4thImpulse » 28 Apr 2013 11:36

Could it be you're just not 'feeling' the emotions in the music as you write it?

Music is often an expression of emotion and if you want to write a really sad song you shouldn't go into it after watching a bunch of die hard movies and playing call of duty. If you want to write more emotional pieces it, strongly, helps to get into a very emotional mood yourself (whatever that emotion may be).

Sometimes in a studio with a singer they'll have their 'emotional song' they want to record but they just can't sell those emotions with their voice you have to get them to feel it. Ask them what the lyrics mean, what it means to them, and basically get them deep into that emotion. Once they are feeling it then it becomes a whole lot easier for them to sell those emotions with their voice.

This is a different part of music production people seem to often forget about.
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Re: Creating 'Emotional' Orchestra

Postby Callenby » 28 Apr 2013 15:43

Not much more for me to add except that a good deal of what you're asking depends on simply what libraries you're using and the fact that you're using VSTIs at all as opposed to actual human performers. In my opinion, even performances captured in MIDI with good libraries won't get you the exact same results as a quality recording of a quality orchestra (but that doesn't at all mean you should shun them).

In my experience, neglecting the human element has been one of the biggest mistakes for people working with VSTIs, so doing whatever you can to mimic will pay off. But thankfully you have options, especially if you own really expansive, capable libraries. You can mess around with tempo and volume to create feelings of rising and falling, and to keep it from sounding robotic. As has been said, instruments are capable of many kinds of sounds, timbres, and combinations so make use of all that you can (this is where the quality of library really comes in).

I'm afraid I'm not being very helpful, but the root of your question has already been addressed - learn orchestration. That's no small feat, I understand, and it will take a lot of time and practice, but it's important. Unfortunately off the top of my head I can't name any good websites; I've just been using this textbook (but I totally get it if that's just too expensive).

I'll finish with my own example of a well-known and super emotional piece, in case you wanted more.

Lying Pink wrote:(especially cellos oh god cellos *melts into puddle of goo*)

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EDIT: I completely forgot about this video, where Daniel Levitin talks about how musicians create emotion. It's not, strictly speaking, about orchestral music but still valuable knowledge, in my opinion.

What he found is that, at least when it comes to piano, all expression comes from just four simple parameters: 1. when to play the key, 2. when to let go of it, 3. how hard to hit it, and 4. when to use the pedal. The interesting thing is that each of these are rather easily replicated in a DAW.

It's nuance and variation - playing louder and softer, shorter and longer - that we register as creating emotion. These things, not so coincidentally, run parallel to the natural cadences of human speech.

Part 2 of the video is here.
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Re: Creating 'Emotional' Orchestra

Postby Dr_Dissonance » 29 Apr 2013 08:11

Most things have already been said, except for the fact that writing for few instruments is a whole different kettle of fish than writing for orchestra. With orchestras, you write with big, sweeping brush strokes, but a chamber piece is all about the small details. If you write a string quartet piece like you would an orchestral one, it will suck and vice-versa.

GET INTIMATE with the instruments you choose. If you're using sample libraries, research how they're made and how they work. Also research how the instrument itself works and utilise that knowledge when writing for them.
So, lets go with the Cello, considering its been brought up a lot here. What are the strings tuned to? What would be a typical fingering length? How would a performer move from X note to Y note?
I've had a few people say these things don't matter when writing with sample libraries, but of course, that's completely wrong, unless you're happy with writing something that sounds off.
For example, writing an arp on the cello that is clearly impossible will sound cool, but writing a believable one will be much more 'human'.

In conclusion, GET COSY WITH YOUR INSTRUMENT OF CHOICE!
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