Anyone got any tips on an Alex S. style growl?

[TheSixor]

I've been trying to make a growl like his for a while and I just can't figure it out. I have Massive and FM8.

If you need a reference, the growl right at the drop of this song is what I'm aiming for:

http://soundcloud.com/alex-s-music/skrillex-and-damian-marley-1

[Friv]

I'm just gonna go ahead and paste this here too:

Every bass can be a growl: EQ (or 2 bandpass/BR/DN filters) with boosts at vowel formant regions in the frequency spectrum.

Vowel formant centers
Vowel (IPA) Formant f1 Formant f2
u 320 Hz + 800 Hz
o 500 Hz + 1000 Hz
ɑ 700 Hz + 1150 Hz
a 1000 Hz + 1400 Hz
ø 500 Hz + 1500 Hz
y 320 Hz + 1650 Hz
ɛ 700 Hz + 1800 Hz
e 500 Hz + 2300 Hz
i 320 Hz + 2500 Hz

Vowel formants
Vowel Main formant region
u 200–400 Hz
o 400–600 Hz
a 800–1200 Hz
e 400–600 and 2200–2600 Hz
i 200–400 and 3000–3500 Hz



Then, move the peaks with automation to another formant, and voila you have a talking bass.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For FM growls :
Alot of FM growls come from sending a pure sine wave out, and modifying that sine wave with a high pitched triangle wave. Play a very low note, and automate the triangle>sine's FM amount. Use other operators to change the waveform of the triangle to make it meatier and unique and voila, you've got an FM talking bass. Also you can combine this with the above technique; be creative, and don't just copy tutorials.

[Seven]

Correct me if I'm wrong (really, please, do. How else will I learn sound design?), but as much as I would call it a growl bass, I can't hear the vocal formants (too well). I'd guess on simple lowpass filter, along with distortion. Maybe there are vocal formants peaks, but I can't hear them being an essential part of the sound.

[Friv]

Correct me if I'm wrong (really, please, do. How else will I learn sound design?), but as much as I would call it a growl bass, I can't hear the vocal formants (too well). I'd guess on simple lowpass filter, along with distortion. Maybe there are vocal formants peaks, but I can't hear them being an essential part of the sound.

You don't need the vocal formants for it to be a growl. A growl is simply just a bass with lots of movement, usually via filters.

[itroitnyah]

Wall of text

Simply amazing. I think that we will see, some time in the near future, people using this a lot in their music. I think that's what will really piss off Alex the most.

[Lavender_Harmony]

Wall of text

Simply amazing. I think that we will see, some time in the near future, people using this a lot in their music. I think that's what will really piss off Alex the most.

I think Kill the Noise would be annoyed before he would.

[itroitnyah]

Wall of text

Simply amazing. I think that we will see, some time in the near future, people using this a lot in their music. I think that's what will really piss off Alex the most.

I think Kill the Noise would be annoyed before he would.

Lol, probably.

[Thyrai]

Whoa, that`s quite the guide. Thanks a lot, Lav

[Alex S.]

.

Let me begin by telling you that you're completely wrong, in almost every single part you lay out. It's kinda funny.

it's massive, hey you got that right at least!

Not chrome tho. lol

[Ruka]

I don't quite see why you would need that growl though. Not that it isn't amazing, but part of making your own music is originality. And you could make something with the exact same amount of awesome yourself :3

[Stu Beef]

Sorry, hahaha

[Captain Ironhelm]

Useful information

lol I like trains (or something equally as useful)

While knowing the exact way someone made a sound can sometimes be enlightening, bottom line to get a sound you just have to put the time into learning synthesis. I've been able to create FM sounding growls with Massive. Maybe not super practical if you own a decent FM synth, but the point is you don't have to do something just so to get the result you want.

Information such as Lavender has provided is super awesome for getting started! It gives a starting point from which you can gain understanding on how to go about getting what sounds you want.

(end of useless post )

[Lavender_Harmony]

Also, for reference, An audio example of my iteration. According to Alex I'm completely wrong, but hey, I've got something that's reasonably close. Much better to take that and develop your own sounds than to carbon copy Alex See also everyone using monster FM8 growls nowadays thanks to Scrullix

[MRPPony]

Let me begin by telling you that you're completely wrong, in almost every single part you lay out. It's kinda funny.

it's massive, hey you got that right at least!

Not chrome tho. lol

Wait what th...Alex is on MLR...and he's totally being a troll/mean and such? Well then lol.
Probably sarcasm but whatever, I don't think I'll use a growl in my tracks but if I do, I'll do something different so chernabog doesn't attack me....I mean alex.

[Lavender_Harmony]

He's just jerking me around because I'm 'ermahgehrd calling him out super sekrets revealed!1one1' or something idk.

[Seven]

You don't need the vocal formants for it to be a growl. A growl is simply just a bass with lots of movement, usually via filters.

Wellp, have to redefine "growl" then. I'd associated it with, specifically, the vocal traits of the sound. "Bass with movement" has just been...well... "bass with movement" to me. (which I recently found lots interest in.) Glad to be able to add that to my dictionary. Termiology sure can be confusing. (My bad)

I get the feeling I will edit this post later. Got a pretty nice location. The view from down here is, well, alright, I guess.

[ChromaticChaosPony]

There's another way to make growls, though I doubt that Alex S does this.

In Massive, choose 2 or 3 wavetables you like, and set them to bend +/- . Then set an LFO synced at 1/2 to modulate the wavetable positions and the intensity. Then, set an LFO synced to 1 to the pitch of the oscillators up by 12 semitones (or one octave). Play in the C2-C3 range or lower. It should sound somewhat like a growl. Set the unisono in the voicing tab to aroun 4 or whatever you think sounds the best. Add some distortion, maybe some chorus (very small amounts), dimension expander, etc. mess around with using phase modulation on certain oscillators. Set a higher pan position in the voicing tab. Same with pitch cutoff or whatever.

Now, there are multiple ways to make your filthy bass growl. One is to use a formant filter, such as WOW Filter or Forma 8. The other is with EQ automation.

In WOW Filter, set the filter to bandreject mode, and then vowel mode. Mess around with it on an automation track.

In the EQ method, open an EQ outside of Massive. I don't know a lot about formants, but here are the settings I use:
Cut at 500-600 Hz by as many dB as you can
Huge boost at around 1 kHz
Medium/small boosts at whatever formants between 5kHz and 15kHz

Take the boost at around 1kHz and sweep it lower in frequency by using an automation track. This makes it growl.

Finally, you need to high pass filter the entire thing at around 150-200Hz. This leaves room for the sub bass and kick drum. It also removes those unwanted muddy frequencies.

There you have it, a decent bass growl.

--

If you want to go a few steps further, you can try using guitar amp simulators as your distortion unit. Also, you can add some phasing or comb filtering outside of Massive. This is especially useful if you're trying to get that Downlink or Excision sound on your growls. You could also resample your sound and apply extra LFOs to it.

My opinions:
I like the wavetable Deepthroat. It makes your growl sound like midrange bass vomit.

EQ automation is better than formant filters because you get the most control over your sound.

Automate the pan position to make the bass less static.

Put some reverb on a return track for the growl. It makes the sound wider, and helps a little with mixing.

DO NOT FORGET TO ADD SUB BASS. Layer it in via another synth.

Compress the bass a little. I like to use New York style compression. That is basically just putting th the compressor on a return track, compressing the fuck out of the bass, and then lowering the volume of the return track to bring back some of the dry signal.

Do not use soundgoodizer or sausage fattener. Instead, just use compression and distortion. And if you really feel that your signal needs more coloration, you can use a saturator. Just don't fall victim to the urge to make everything easy. Soundgoodizer and Sausage Fattener will turn mixing into a shitfest if you don't know what you're doing.

Add another EQ. Make cuts according to your mix. For example: cut at the frequency of the snare body (usually around 200Hz).
--

Enjoy.

Edit: this entire method produces a growl like the ones in Megatron Vomit mixes. Not exactly Alex S style. However, I'm pretty sure you could make this sound closer to Alex S if you choose the right wavetables. But Megatron Vomit style growls and wobbles get you more respect among other producers than replicating Alex S or Skrillex anyways.

In case you're wondering, Megatron Vomit is NOT a producer. It is a series of robotic dubstep mixtapes. You can find them on YouTube if you look them up.

[ChromaticChaosPony]

Here's a visualization of what I'm talking about:

[Alex S.]

He's just jerking me around because I'm 'ermahgehrd calling him out super sekrets revealed!1one1' or something idk.

No, i'm jerking you around because it was funny seeing you so confident in something wrong haha.

What you said aren't my "secrets" lol.



Just use Wobblebass and Dr Drum.

[ChromaticChaosPony]

Alex and Lavender: I know you're both starting some kind of flame war, but can I at least have some feedback on my wall of text and visualizations that go with it? I kinda put some effort into typing all of that out for people. I'd like to at least hope that it helps someone.

[Omegastick]

Alex and Lavender: I know you're both starting some kind of flame war, but can I at least have some feedback on my wall of text and visualizations that go with it? I kinda put some effort into typing all of that out for people. I'd like to at least hope that it helps someone.

The images aren't working for me, otherwise I'd leave you some feedback.

[ChromaticChaosPony]

Alex and Lavender: I know you're both starting some kind of flame war, but can I at least have some feedback on my wall of text and visualizations that go with it? I kinda put some effort into typing all of that out for people. I'd like to at least hope that it helps someone.

The images aren't working for me, otherwise I'd leave you some feedback.

Ok. I'll try to fix them.

Edit: I fixed them.

[Lavender_Harmony]

There's another way to make growls, though I doubt that Alex S does this.

In Massive, choose 2 or 3 wavetables you like, and set them to bend +/- . Then set an LFO synced at 1/2 to modulate the wavetable positions and the intensity. Then, set an LFO synced to 1 to the pitch of the oscillators up by 12 semitones (or one octave). Play in the C2-C3 range or lower. It should sound somewhat like a growl. Set the unisono in the voicing tab to aroun 4 or whatever you think sounds the best. Add some distortion, maybe some chorus (very small amounts), dimension expander, etc. mess around with using phase modulation on certain oscillators. Set a higher pan position in the voicing tab. Same with pitch cutoff or whatever.

Now, there are multiple ways to make your filthy bass growl. One is to use a formant filter, such as WOW Filter or Forma 8. The other is with EQ automation.

In WOW Filter, set the filter to bandreject mode, and then vowel mode. Mess around with it on an automation track.

In the EQ method, open an EQ outside of Massive. I don't know a lot about formants, but here are the settings I use:
Cut at 500-600 Hz by as many dB as you can
Huge boost at around 1 kHz
Medium/small boosts at whatever formants between 5kHz and 15kHz

Take the boost at around 1kHz and sweep it lower in frequency by using an automation track. This makes it growl.

Finally, you need to high pass filter the entire thing at around 150-200Hz. This leaves room for the sub bass and kick drum. It also removes those unwanted muddy frequencies.

There you have it, a decent bass growl.

--

If you want to go a few steps further, you can try using guitar amp simulators as your distortion unit. Also, you can add some phasing or comb filtering outside of Massive. This is especially useful if you're trying to get that Downlink or Excision sound on your growls. You could also resample your sound and apply extra LFOs to it.

My opinions:
I like the wavetable Deepthroat. It makes your growl sound like midrange bass vomit.

EQ automation is better than formant filters because you get the most control over your sound.

Automate the pan position to make the bass less static.

Put some reverb on a return track for the growl. It makes the sound wider, and helps a little with mixing.

DO NOT FORGET TO ADD SUB BASS. Layer it in via another synth.

Compress the bass a little. I like to use New York style compression. That is basically just putting th the compressor on a return track, compressing the fuck out of the bass, and then lowering the volume of the return track to bring back some of the dry signal.

Do not use soundgoodizer or sausage fattener. Instead, just use compression and distortion. And if you really feel that your signal needs more coloration, you can use a saturator. Just don't fall victim to the urge to make everything easy. Soundgoodizer and Sausage Fattener will turn mixing into a shitfest if you don't know what you're doing.

Add another EQ. Make cuts according to your mix. For example: cut at the frequency of the snare body (usually around 200Hz).
--

Enjoy.

Edit: this entire method produces a growl like the ones in Megatron Vomit mixes. Not exactly Alex S style. However, I'm pretty sure you could make this sound closer to Alex S if you choose the right wavetables. But Megatron Vomit style growls and wobbles get you more respect among other producers than replicating Alex S or Skrillex anyways.

In case you're wondering, Megatron Vomit is NOT a producer. It is a series of robotic dubstep mixtapes. You can find them on YouTube if you look them up.

Alright, first of all I'll recommend incorporating the Performer within Massive rather than an LFO, as the LFO's provide little control for shaping the envelope, whereas the performer gives you a little more. Of course, the best results come from manual automation, but you can do that later on and use the performer as a sandbox.

Also be very careful about using Phase Modulation in conjunction with pitch modulation, as the results can sound really messy if you're not careful.

[ChromaticChaosPony]

There's another way to make growls, though I doubt that Alex S does this.

In Massive, choose 2 or 3 wavetables you like, and set them to bend +/- . Then set an LFO synced at 1/2 to modulate the wavetable positions and the intensity. Then, set an LFO synced to 1 to the pitch of the oscillators up by 12 semitones (or one octave). Play in the C2-C3 range or lower. It should sound somewhat like a growl. Set the unisono in the voicing tab to aroun 4 or whatever you think sounds the best. Add some distortion, maybe some chorus (very small amounts), dimension expander, etc. mess around with using phase modulation on certain oscillators. Set a higher pan position in the voicing tab. Same with pitch cutoff or whatever.

Now, there are multiple ways to make your filthy bass growl. One is to use a formant filter, such as WOW Filter or Forma 8. The other is with EQ automation.

In WOW Filter, set the filter to bandreject mode, and then vowel mode. Mess around with it on an automation track.

In the EQ method, open an EQ outside of Massive. I don't know a lot about formants, but here are the settings I use:
Cut at 500-600 Hz by as many dB as you can
Huge boost at around 1 kHz
Medium/small boosts at whatever formants between 5kHz and 15kHz

Take the boost at around 1kHz and sweep it lower in frequency by using an automation track. This makes it growl.

Finally, you need to high pass filter the entire thing at around 150-200Hz. This leaves room for the sub bass and kick drum. It also removes those unwanted muddy frequencies.

There you have it, a decent bass growl.

--

If you want to go a few steps further, you can try using guitar amp simulators as your distortion unit. Also, you can add some phasing or comb filtering outside of Massive. This is especially useful if you're trying to get that Downlink or Excision sound on your growls. You could also resample your sound and apply extra LFOs to it.

My opinions:
I like the wavetable Deepthroat. It makes your growl sound like midrange bass vomit.

EQ automation is better than formant filters because you get the most control over your sound.

Automate the pan position to make the bass less static.

Put some reverb on a return track for the growl. It makes the sound wider, and helps a little with mixing.

DO NOT FORGET TO ADD SUB BASS. Layer it in via another synth.

Compress the bass a little. I like to use New York style compression. That is basically just putting th the compressor on a return track, compressing the fuck out of the bass, and then lowering the volume of the return track to bring back some of the dry signal.

Do not use soundgoodizer or sausage fattener. Instead, just use compression and distortion. And if you really feel that your signal needs more coloration, you can use a saturator. Just don't fall victim to the urge to make everything easy. Soundgoodizer and Sausage Fattener will turn mixing into a shitfest if you don't know what you're doing.

Add another EQ. Make cuts according to your mix. For example: cut at the frequency of the snare body (usually around 200Hz).
--

Enjoy.

Edit: this entire method produces a growl like the ones in Megatron Vomit mixes. Not exactly Alex S style. However, I'm pretty sure you could make this sound closer to Alex S if you choose the right wavetables. But Megatron Vomit style growls and wobbles get you more respect among other producers than replicating Alex S or Skrillex anyways.

In case you're wondering, Megatron Vomit is NOT a producer. It is a series of robotic dubstep mixtapes. You can find them on YouTube if you look them up.

Alright, first of all I'll recommend incorporating the Performer within Massive rather than an LFO, as the LFO's provide little control for shaping the envelope, whereas the performer gives you a little more. Of course, the best results come from manual automation, but you can do that later on and use the performer as a sandbox.

Also be very careful about using Phase Modulation in conjunction with pitch modulation, as the results can sound really messy if you're not careful.

Ok. I'll make better use of the performer from now on. I don't always use it so much. I usually use LFOs or manual automation. And envelopes.

Thanks for pointing that out about using phase modulation. I usually only turn the knob up just over 0. I hope I didn't mislead too many people.

Ok. I'll definitely try using the performer more from now on.

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

@LavenderHarmony

Turn up the amp on the feedback. XD

I laughed my ass off.