The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

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Where should the funds from the upcoming Balloon Party go?

Poll ended at 11 Mar 2014 18:16

Charity
26
53%
Cons
23
47%
 
Total votes : 49

Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Captain Ironhelm » 11 Mar 2014 12:30

Navron wrote:I vote we market this as a sequel to BP to be released free of charge, for no fundraising or financial assistance, and focus on making a clear, distinct style with unbiased judging. We'll see how many people are interested in making a big community album that's simply about the music.


Bronycon is no surprise event. Everybody knew it was going to happen, and has had plenty of time to start saving some cash. I'm with you.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Injustrial » 11 Mar 2014 12:45

Captain Ironhelm wrote:
Navron wrote:I vote we market this as a sequel to BP to be released free of charge, for no fundraising or financial assistance, and focus on making a clear, distinct style with unbiased judging. We'll see how many people are interested in making a big community album that's simply about the music.


Bronycon is no surprise event. Everythreebody knew it was going to happen, and has had plenty of time to start saving some cash. I'm with you.


Since I'm more interested in being part of a great project than the impossibly slim opportunity to maybe go to Bronycon, I support this idea. But whatever is decided, I don't really mind too much, since the important part is just making good music.

I like freewave's plan on focusing on the less bloated names. The dropoff curve of the big names has been noticable within the community, and I think the fandom needs to open their eyes to the potential rising stars. If we focused on the lesser known artists, but still maintained quality control, I think the album could be diverse, interesting and show off a lot of talent. The fandom needs to open up to a new generation of musicians if the scene is to continue growing
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby CitricAcid » 11 Mar 2014 13:43

Free or not, if the album is just about the music, what will make it different from any other community album? The fact that it was a fundraiser to bring musicians to cons in the past served as a gimmick to make the public more interested in it. If the album is used for charity, that could also serve as the gimmick to appeal to the public as well. Why should the common non-musician brony support this album if it doesn't give anything back to the brony community?

For the record, my perspective assumes that the album serves the following purposes listed from most important to least important:
1. The album should be seen as "special" to the public. Not just another MotD.
2. The album should give something back to the public in exchange for their support.
3. Any changes to this Balloon Party should not negatively affect the credibility that its previous generations had (from the perspective of the public).
4. The quality control should be unbiased towards "big name" musicians.
5. The album should generate money.


I wasn't here for the big fallout in the brony music community however many years ago, but regardless of which musicians are involved in this album, we as musicians serve the public first and each other second. We're entertainers. If we kick the big names off the album, because we don't consider them part of the community any more, the public will be disappointed. Just imagine what it would be like if the new Star Wars movie coming out had none of the original cast, because the actors didn't like each other.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Navron » 11 Mar 2014 20:13

but regardless of which musicians are involved in this album, we as musicians serve the public first and each other second. We're entertainers.


I serve absolutely nobody when it comes to my music. I could lose every one of my subscribers, and while I would be sad, it won't change what kind of music I make.

Out of all the things I could recommend for this album, going with what the community wants is likely the worst, because the brony community doesn't know what they want. They wanted dubstep with BP, and got angry that most of it was dubstep. They wanted a fan-made episode, and they hated the one they got.

Personally, I think some kind of, "revival of music," theme would be awesome. I can't remember which pony this album was supposed to be based off (Twilight?), but I think having a large compilation of amazingly high quality songs in tons of different genres would be a big success. If the album's pony is Twilight, you could have some sort of theme revolving around the studies of music from all over, and feature the best tracks from a wide range of genres.

But yeah, please don't try and orient this album around what the community wants. I guarantee you that is a recipe for disaster.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby ChocolateChicken » 11 Mar 2014 22:38

Navron wrote:I serve absolutely nobody when it comes to my music. I could lose every one of my subscribers, and while I would be sad, it won't change what kind of music I make.


This is probably the most important belief when it comes to art. I wish more musicians understood this, not just in this community but everywhere.

----

I don't think the album should try to favor less popular musicians because individual popularity should not be the goal of this album. If an artist cares about popularity then they are making music for the wrong reasons. If a musician wants to get noticed or accepted onto the album, they should work hard and make a song WORTHY of the compilation. There's help everywhere if they need it. People will not want give money to the album for charity if it's not even worth listening to.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Mr. Bigglesworth » 11 Mar 2014 23:35

I think charity is a better idea for this album for one reason. BP raised plenty of money, we flew out musicians, mission accomplished. Fast forward to R&R. What I heard tells me we made about $3000. Enough for 4-6 people if they're all in America. How much is this one gonna raise? With interest in brony produced music on the downfall? I don't think it'll be very much at all.

So is it better to try for cons and potentially not have enough or donate to charity where we don't have a quota to reach?

It's not my decision to make, and my facts might even be wrong (I'm going off of what I've personally soaked up), but that's my 2 cents.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby ChocolateChicken » 12 Mar 2014 00:43

I think there would be more willing participants and entries (and thus, more possible accepted songs), if this raises money for cons than for charity.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby CitricAcid » 12 Mar 2014 06:39

ChocolateChicken wrote:
Navron wrote:I serve absolutely nobody when it comes to my music. I could lose every one of my subscribers, and while I would be sad, it won't change what kind of music I make.


This is probably the most important belief when it comes to art. I wish more musicians understood this, not just in this community but everywhere.

I understand now where you're coming from. I'm of the exact opposite mindset, though, when it comes to music. I serve anybody but myself, since I find making music for myself boring. If I don't have a target audience--be that a community or an individual--I have a hard time staying motivated to compose. Thus I favor a Balloon Party that would attract the maximum audience possible, and I think this would be one whose purpose is to bring musicians to cons.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Jokeblue » 12 Mar 2014 08:11

CitricAcid wrote:
ChocolateChicken wrote:
Navron wrote:I serve absolutely nobody when it comes to my music. I could lose every one of my subscribers, and while I would be sad, it won't change what kind of music I make.


This is probably the most important belief when it comes to art. I wish more musicians understood this, not just in this community but everywhere.

I understand now where you're coming from. I'm of the exact opposite mindset, though, when it comes to music. I serve anybody but myself, since I find making music for myself boring. If I don't have a target audience--be that a community or an individual--I have a hard time staying motivated to compose. Thus I favor a Balloon Party that would attract the maximum audience possible, and I think this would be one whose purpose is to bring musicians to cons.


I feel like I identify more with CitricAcid's reasoning. It's great making music and all and I love that I can make music I love, but without an audience it just kind of fades off. At the moment I can't even get an audience apart from friends that I have to go out of my way to show them what i've done, and they're response is usually a kind of "you did that whoa cool great" because you're their friend and it's great you did something cool like that and all, but they're not personally interested in the type of music you make, and so they then plug their ipod back into their indie/folk whatever other genre music and forget about it and don't listen to it again. Nobody i've really known has ever been all that into the kind of music that I make. That's why I felt so happy when my first song, even though it didnt get on R&R which was the main goal, made it onto EQD and I actually got a positive response from an audience who wanted to hear what I had to offer. Art is made to be shared and enjoyed. When I perform, I feel happier and enjoy what i'm doing much more when I see people enjoying it and themselves and it creates a good circular flow of positive vibes, and having a good vibe flow is always the best because it makes you feel like what you're doing is worth doing.You can say all you want about not being in the music for subs or fans or audience or whatever the hell, but it always feels that much more gratifying when there's actually an audience and that audience is responding in a positive way to something you've made something you can be proud of.


For the main purpose of this thread though, I want to say charity but analyzing my position I feel I am kind of biased due to the fact that I live in Oz and the chances of me getting to any kind of Con are low and I've accepted the reality of that and i'm fine with it. However just because I'm cool with not going doesn't mean that I should be completely against other people receiving the opportunity. And ChocolateChicken raises a good point, if it is based at raising money for cons people can see it a sort of prize and it can rev up a bit of motivation in the thought process and hope that they personally could get something out of it. Whether as with a charity, even though its a nobler cause people will (kind of sadly) always on some level be looking to hopefully get something out of it. (maybe)

But to negate that, maybe just the large and quite fandom renowned name of Balloon Party will be enough to draw people in anyway. I know it did for me when I first joined the site.

Also, changing the focus to charity could draw focus away from and overshadow other charity themed albums that are or will be in the works. Guh, i'm glad I didn't vote on the poll because I really don't know what to vote for. There are pros and cons for each. I feel like whatever direction it ends up taking will be fine.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Navron » 12 Mar 2014 11:24

Perhaps I should clarify, because you're all assuming I'm against the audience aspect. An audience is vitally important to any artist, just try not to think of it as, "serving the audience."

When I say I make music for myself, I don't mean that in a sense that I make music for solely my own enjoyment. It's the emotional and communication aspect of artistry that's important. You should be making music from your own heart based on the emotions and communication you want to convey to the listener. You shouldn't be making music based on satisfying the listener's demands, because it takes out those aspects.

Each song is a story. Even the most generic sounding EDM songs usually have some sort of story behind the song. The popular song, "Shots!" is a story of living an exciting life of partying like there's no tomorrow.

When you make a song based on another person's demands, you are essentially telling their story, but due to the fact you are not them, chances are you will not fully tell the story they have envisioned, so nobody ends up being the artist. It's just a song that exists with a barely conveyed message behind it, the emotional impact lost on both the listener, and the musician.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby CitricAcid » 12 Mar 2014 12:10

Navron wrote:Perhaps I should clarify, because you're all assuming I'm against the audience aspect. An audience is vitally important to any artist, just try not to think of it as, "serving the audience."

When I say I make music for myself, I don't mean that in a sense that I make music for solely my own enjoyment. It's the emotional and communication aspect of artistry that's important. You should be making music from your own heart based on the emotions and communication you want to convey to the listener. You shouldn't be making music based on satisfying the listener's demands, because it takes out those aspects.

Each song is a story. Even the most generic sounding EDM songs usually have some sort of story behind the song. The popular song, "Shots!" is a story of living an exciting life of partying like there's no tomorrow.

When you make a song based on another person's demands, you are essentially telling their story, but due to the fact you are not them, chances are you will not fully tell the story they have envisioned, so nobody ends up being the artist. It's just a song that exists with a barely conveyed message behind it, the emotional impact lost on both the listener, and the musician.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I just want to clarify my own standpoint: I make music in precisely the way that you don't think music should be made. I serve the audience indeed. If someone wants to pay me to make music for them--assuming I'm capable and not morally opposed to it--I want to do it. In lieu of having such a customer, I make music that I think the audience wants to hear. That music may tell stories or evoke emotions from the audience, but I'm not attached to the stories nor are the emotions my own.

I'm sure that the audience is important to both of us, we just have different ways of catering to it, and where we cast our votes for Balloon Party reflects that.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby ChocolateChicken » 12 Mar 2014 23:09

People who quit making music or decide to stop because nobody listens to or likes their music are people who are making music for the wrong reasons and shouldn't be making it in the first place. Music is a form of expression - not a competition. Everyone likes having their art appreciated by others, but people who only make art to try and get people to like it are people who tend to impress nobody.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Freewave » 13 Mar 2014 08:25

ChocolateChicken wrote:People who quit making music or decide to stop because nobody listens to or likes their music are people who are making music for the wrong reasons and shouldn't be making it in the first place. Music is a form of expression - not a competition. Everyone likes having their art appreciated by others, but people who only make art to try and get people to like it are people who tend to impress nobody.


It's really easy to lump all musicians into one category and say everyone has to make music the same way, but that's incorrect. In the end people want their music to be heard by people and get some sort of positive feedback for their efforts. To convey the message in their music. To feel that it was worth the task and to see that number of people interested hopefully grow over time. If people don't get that they are entitled to move on and not feel bad. Of course the musician wants others to enjoy their music as much as they do. Blaming people for quitting (often for a wide variety of issues) or selling out isn't one we should be fostering. Making music is hard enuff.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby ExoBassTix » 13 Mar 2014 16:39

Marilyn Monroe once said: "Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition."
I guess you could say that producers who seek to have people like their music lack ambition too.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby JSynth » 13 Mar 2014 18:06

I think its becoming pretty clear that there are two types of musicians: Entertainers and Artists. An entertainer, like Citric, is out there to give people a good time. An artist is out there to express his/her self. One is not inherently worse than the other, they're just two different perspectives.

That being said, I agree with Freewave in the idea that we should focus the money on getting people to cons who have never been able to go before. Do we really need to fund someone's third trip?
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Artless » 13 Mar 2014 20:53

Oh boy, time to get hype and panic in an attempt to make something good.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Jokeblue » 13 Mar 2014 22:49

JSynth wrote:I think its becoming pretty clear that there are two types of musicians: Entertainers and Artists

Can't one be both? I feel like no matter how you identify yourself in either way, petty much all musicians will inherently be both.

Artless wrote:Oh boy, time to get hype and panic in an attempt to make something good.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Evdog » 14 Mar 2014 00:36

Jokeblue wrote:Can't one be both? I feel like no matter how you identify yourself in either way, petty much all musicians will inherently be both.

Yes. it's not binary, but often one is more one than the other.

I'm already starting on tracks for this album. I've got two tracks planned (one is a collab with Aoshi) and they're both just getting out of concept phase and into production phase. Let's see how things go.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby MG Music » 14 Mar 2014 00:40

I will definitely try to make some tracks for this album (even though i probably won't make it) it will still be a good experience and a lot of fun!
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby ExoBassTix » 14 Mar 2014 01:37

@JSynth, I agree that those types are the most prominent, but I believe fiercely in combined efforts. I trust there are those that are focused on telling a story which entertains people. I like focusing on those people, for I believe them to be worth the effort, at least because they also give more effort to provide quality.

@Jokeblue, I'm pretty straightforward on this matter: how many charity albums are there already? Repeatedly releasing charity fundraising albums does not yield the same results as releasing predictable music (music that average people want because they don't know better and are initially afraid of/on edge about unique strange music); music like Big Room House, Trap, and Modern Dubstep. Such music gets interest. Though with charity fundraising albums, Bronies either enter a state of neutralism or dislike, or, since so many charity fundraising albums have been made already without (as regular) different special projects, a state of forced interest. Keep in mind, they are average bronies, uncapable of changing what all those albums will become. When you're not left a choice, and all special albums require money for charity, people are forced to (or, as I said, they walk away). Balloon Party has always been different. It had a refreshing difference: Balloon Party has always, instead of spending music on charity, spent money on unity, the goddamn moral of our being here because we love colorful friendship. If all episodes of MLP were about Twilight having solo adventures, do you think we'd be here hyping over it?

EDIT - In a nutshell, Balloon Party lost uniqueness with becoming a charity fundraising album. I'm personally sick of seeing those kinda albums pop up everywhere. Charity this, charity that, there are plenty already. I don't believe the appeal to Balloon Party will increase one bit because BP is now much more like all other brony albums.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby ClaviSound » 14 Mar 2014 14:47

hey hey hey exobasstix makes good points

Honestly, I was hoping for a 50/50 split as it's an easier number to reason with and rally behind for all parties, but it seems that some still want 100% one way or the other. I will say, however, that if this next BP album does turn out to be a charity album anyway, regardless of the amount it actually donates to charity, it should be so only once, and no further BP albums should follow that formula. There was already a tremendous downgrade of interest in Rainbow & Rooted compared to the original Balloon Party, and if Exo here is correct (which I have full faith he is), it won't get any better if Balloon Party's focus changes.

I've also tended to notice that the travel incentive for participants in Balloon Party albums tends to motivate them to create better music than if it were for a selfless cause like charity. If getting on the album means the difference between going to BronyCon and not, you're sure as hell going to try your damnedest.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby ExoBassTix » 14 Mar 2014 16:40

IF, and only IF, there'd be an agreement on that we should at least do this ONCE, and only once, do it with the Fluttershy album because Fluttershy cares about those who can't take proper care of themselves or are not able to (aka. she's a charity right).
Especially with Twilight I think we -shouldn't-, because after all she's on a quest for friendship. 1) BronyQuest, 2) friendship should bring people and ponies alike together.

And to continue on what you say, I agree that people are more motivated to make good things under such conditions, because instead of helping those in need, they'd be helping all serious participants. Mainly a give-and-take thing; everybody provides a part of the picture, and for that all get the prize of being brought together.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Mr. Bigglesworth » 15 Mar 2014 07:22

Well, if it's decided that it goes to cons, I'm not really opposed to it tbh, I just think charity would be the safer option and a good cause. It'd be a longshot to get it to raise more money than the first BP did though, there'd need to be either a lot of luck or some clever marketing on the organizers part. Like I said, there's just not as much interest anymore, we'd need to play it cleverly to drum it up.

I think if we wanted to go to the marketing route, we'd need to do something that drums up interest by making it something of an enigma. Like, announcing something is happening, but not giving any details to try and get people to speculate and thus play up some hype. I think towards the end we could do anonymous teasers on a YT channel or something and try to get people to really hook people for release at that point.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Guthey » 16 Mar 2014 03:15

What's a balloon party? Sorry, I'm new to this.
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Re: The upcoming Balloon Party sequel

Postby Evdog » 16 Mar 2014 04:56

Guthey wrote:What's a balloon party? Sorry, I'm new to this.

Around June 2012, a Pinkie Pie themed album, titled "Balloon Party - 100% No Feeble Cheering" (that's a parody of the title "Knife Party - 100% No Modern Talking"), was released by the community. The money raised from that was put toward getting fellow musicians to come to BronyCon, particularly ones who couldn't afford to make it there out of their own pocket. There were ~150 tracks submitted and 45 (if I remember correctly) were chosen for the release, and a lot of people, not exactly sure how many though, got to go.

A year later, a Rainbow Dash themed sequel album was released titled "Rainbow & Rooted - Four's Fall Down" (In retrospect, I think "Are-D - Coolness Overdose '97" would have been a more awesome title). This chat is talking about the third one in the series, which is Twilight Sparkle themed, and hasn't been released, or even written, yet.

Hope that clears things up :wink:
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