Just got shafted by EQD (EDIT)

[DerpyGrooves]

EDIT: They got back in touch with me and everything is copacetic. Please feel free to disregard. I was just annoyed at the time.








Okay so for those not in the know, I just only recently released my first album. It's obviously a bit unorthodox, but I was proud of it and I figured hey why not try to get this on EQD.

Anyway, I send them a link and a blurb the 23rd, about five days ago, and they respond on valentines day saying explicitly they've added it to the queue.

So like, today I ended up getting in touch with them, all cheery essentially asking when exactly the post was going to be featured, since I'm sort of wanting to coordinate the EQD bump with some other reddit/tumblr stuff. They get in touch with me today, just about a week after telling me it was in the queue, with the one line response "It's not really a pony album is it?".

So at this point, I'm thinking the odds are pretty slim I'll get featured by EQD, despite the fact that the album is by a reasonably well-known pony musician, with a pony on the cover, and with lyrics like "I pull on my pretty pink saddle".

So thanks you guys.

[Facade]

me and you both i got featured once and they said themselves they'd post more of my stuff. I've submitted like 5+ songs and they haven't posted any of them not even a response its dumb.

[ArtAttack]

That's kind of bullshit. I doubt they even listened to it. I could understand them with my album, cause it was instrumental, but you have lyrics for gods sake. Screw EQD, honestly.

[DerpyGrooves]

Edited 1st post to reflect change in circumstance. Feel free to keep bitching about EQD though, okay.

[ArtAttack]

Meh. That's cool. They still haven't impressed me much though. It's a good site, not much for music though.

[DerpyGrooves]

Meh. That's cool. They still haven't impressed me much though. It's a good site, not much for music though.

TBH I have to say I agree, although I really think they have made steps to like, improve their relationship w. the music community.

It's sort of hard to fight with the only game in town.

[AerieFlew]

you know we can bitch forever but once you get featured on there, people know you.
Goal=To Be Featured
Goal reached? lawl, no.

It was rude and what not what they have done to y'all but... Even one thing on there is good. You know?

[Rainbowdutch]

We as prelisteners never got the album. I do remember Seth giving a slight remark that he got an album but that it was not pony enough, not giving us any link or other information.

[Mundius]

Well, that's why I don't check EqD. Or have been since it hit, what, 15 million, maybe? Seth is an odd pony.

[Applejinx]

I adapted 'Somewhere Over The Rainbow' into pony terms as Applejack pining for Dash and not gettin' over it, and it had vocals and everythin'. Picture of Dash flying off lookin' fed up. I drew the picture myself.

Exactly the same issue- 'not pony enough' when I'd written the lyric to be sung BY Applejack.

I jes' went and did another song. Ended up doing a couple revisions on Somewhere and gettin' it to where I wanted it.

I also came up with an elaborate press releasey thing for the newer song (Twilight Sparkle's Eyes) and saw it go nowhere. So I resubmitted, once (after a good long wait) with NO information at all, only a copy-and-paste of some folks on YouTube saying they thought it should run on EqD (legit, I don't know them) and that time it ran- with absolutely no information, but it still ran. Good enough!

I learned they have no interest whatsoever in any of the fripperies around the piece, or making it more interesting like I'm some interestin' pony- it's all about throwin' a little group of YouTube embeds that seem like they're pony music. They're just as happy with instrumental as vocal if it 'sounds like pony music' (I bet Eurobeat has an edge there!) and they're just as happy with novelty stuff as serious music if the novelty music seems like it's REALLY REALLY PONIFIED.

Basically it's all about tappin' into the most ponified music space imaginable, in every way, 'cos they have a lot of submissions to choose from. That ain't changin' anytime soon!

[Pickslide1992]

I haven't checked EQD in months, and for good reason. Unless you're some big name brony celebrity, do not expect to get featured. You could be a nobody and make an amazing track and not get featured, while someone like Living Tombstone can release a song filled with nothing but farts and burps and it'd get its own feature.

It's all politics.

[Facade]

It's all politics.

DAMN YOU POLITICS!!!!

[Freewave]

while someone like Living Tombstone can release a song filled with nothing but farts and burps and it'd get its own feature.

i believe those farts and burps are technically called DUBSTEP

But seriously though EqD does do a lot of new artist highlights as well (some people get highlighted and never do a follow-up). Your best bet is to go for the long haul and make sure your tracks really are quality and are getting a positive response on soundcloud, youtube, mlr, and have good mastering, etc. They will not feature every track by an artist but if you have a track that's a cut above the rest of your catalog that people like you should keep submitting until you get a response (a successful submission or rejection response which they do promise). I finally got a 2nd track in there but it took 4 previous track submissions and no responses up to this point.

Is it worth the aggravation? Likely, but it was frustrating I admit...

Still if you want to win the lottery you HAVE to buy a ticket.

[Applejinx]

Your best bet is to go for the long haul and make sure your tracks really are quality and are getting a positive response on soundcloud, youtube, mlr, and have good mastering, etc.

This, bigtime- and not a positive response because you went out and bugged people to respond positively, but something real. I know this 'cos I'm out of step with what music currently is so there's a built in disadvantage there.

The comedian Steve Martin had advice about this. Might or might not be your style of comic but he did BIG comedy gigs, movies, TV appearances, so clearly he was doing something right- he says,

"Be so good they can't ignore you"

It's impossible to be that good to everybody but you have to single out whoever IS diggin' it and be so good they are freaking out, and that's going to be different for each artist but it's still much the same on a deeper level. I don't know squat about dance music and can't be good at that, but I'm starting to be seriously good at things like guitar and bass tones and making a big-sounding mix in more of a rock vein, and that helps me not be ignored. I have to get better at it though...

[Pickslide1992]

Maybe the reason I got featured a long time ago was because I am not another techno/dubstep guy, but I do rock/metal/vintage electronica. I know there's other rock/metal guys but we're a minority compared to the techno/dubstep guys.

Still, as much as it's cool to get featured, I promote myself elsewhere, like Everypony Sings. Hell, I got a position there as an interviewer because the webmaster and I ware great friends (Candy Coda is his name. I have no clue if he has an account here)

[Rainbowdutch]

I cannot tell you anything substantial. However we are beginning to change the way music gets send to the prelisteners and get a way so that the prelisteners are more able to give feedback. The plan is still in the idea stages though so it still might take a while.

[Freewave]

I cannot tell you anything substantial. However we are beginning to change the way music gets send to the prelisteners and get a way so that the prelisteners are more able to give feedback. The plan is still in the idea stages though so it still might take a while.

This sounds great. Part of the biggest reason why there is grumbling about EqD is the lack or reponse a lot of the time. Even if there was a default set of responses to get back to users (not pony enough, needs mastering, not good enough yet, needs a better video, etc) it gives people the chance to improve and to continue submitting.

As others have stated

This, bigtime- and not a positive response because you went out and bugged people to respond positively, but something real.

"Be so good they can't ignore you"

It's impossible to be that good to everybody but you have to single out whoever IS diggin' it and be so good they are freaking out, and that's going to be different for each artist but it's still much the same on a deeper level.

Which is very true. People should be "this is awesome!" not just yourself.

[the4thImpulse]

I cannot tell you anything substantial. However we are beginning to change the way music gets send to the prelisteners and get a way so that the prelisteners are more able to give feedback. The plan is still in the idea stages though so it still might take a while.

Do you need more prelisters for music? If so I would be glad to help.

[Vedrim]

I had a similar experience to the OP, where I was left rather confused and upset over what essentially amounted to a lack of communication. Had I have been told upfront what I was eventually told after reaching out to the pre-listeners, I would have been perfectly fine with their decision, despite disagreeing with the methodology behind why they reached it. Since it makes no sense to fault someone for their opinion, the best you can do is simply disagree with it.

Anyway, I had submitted this a few months back. Since the initial description of the video was unclear as to whether or not it was a work in progress (I had stated it was previously an unfinished track, but have since decided that I was happy with the result as it stood), the first response I got back from Seth (though I later found out that this was Seth merely conveying what the pre-listeners told him) was that it couldn't be posted until it was done. To that, I responded that I had edited the description of the song to better reflect the fact that I was indeed pleased with the piece as it stood.

I didn't get a response, so after a few months I resubmitted it, and again got no response. At the time, I had no idea that there was even such a thing as the pre-listener group, but then Seth made that post where he updated the staff/volunteers page. I wrote a few things in that post's comments section, and later that night received this from Cyril via YouTube PM:

Not passed through EqD Prelisteners:
Sorry, but it may be inspired by Ingram and Anderson but that connection is tenuous at best. I really enjoyed it. That is why it was not passed. Also been through listeners before.

One of our prelistners is confident it has been submitted before and rejected as well. Though admittedly you may not have known that and thought it fell through, sorry we never responded.

Really like your stuff, and apparently your fans love it as well. However we can't make any exceptions based upon that. Having something "pony" enough is difficult to quantify but this fandom has gotten so huge we need to filter out some things otherwise there would be a swamp of stuff.

Thanks for your understanding:
~Cyril on behalf of the EqD Prelisteners

Later that night, after I sent the following message to every single pre-listener:

Cyril and the EqD Pre-Listeners,

Thanks for dignifying me with a response, at least, it saved me the trouble of sending out an email to all of you now that I know this filtering system not only exists, but who moderates it. Not sure what prompted you to respond now, but it's still appreciated.

Cyril, I see you're from OCR; ten years ago, when I was 15 and just starting to make music, they rejected the only thing I ever submitted to them. Fortunately they archive everything for posterity: http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=646

Moving on, I'm going to respond point-by-point:

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"Sorry, but it may be inspired by Ingram and Anderson but that connection is tenuous at best. I really enjoyed it. That is why it was not passed. Also been through listeners before."
----------------------------

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. All I can say is that I wrote it shortly after finishing the first season of the show last summer and it was 100% inspired by both the show itself and its music, something which I believe 100% of brony musicians claim when writing, well, anything.

So, just to make sure I'm interpreting this correctly, you're saying that you enjoyed the piece, but rejected it based on a perceived lack of connection to the show? I'm not trying to be derogatory here, I'm trying to make sure I understand what you're saying.

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"One of our prelistners is confident it has been submitted before and rejected as well. Though admittedly you may not have known that and thought it fell through, sorry we never responded."
----------------------------

It was indeed submitted before, but the email reply I received was never from a pre-listener; the response I received was directly from [email protected], and it stated that "we can post it when it's done", referring to the fact that at the time there was a paragraph in the song's description about how it was written last summer and I was "never quite sure it was finished", a sentiment I feel with pretty much everything I write as I tend to be a bit of a perfectionist.

Anyway, I responded back to that clarifying that the song was indeed finished, and have never heard from anyone since. Someone on the MLR forums told me that in many cases Seth just forgets to post stuff because there are so many submissions, and I assumed that was the case here as well, hence my resubmission. If it was rejected the first time, nobody told me.

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"Really like your stuff, and apparently your fans love it as well."
----------------------------

Thanks again.

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"However we can't make any exceptions based upon that."
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I never asked for an exception based on the fact that I've built a subscriber base prior to posting music inspired by MLP. If anything, it seems exceptions are made on a daily basis to push through piles of other instrumentals with connections just as 'tenuous' as mine was, based solely upon someone's standing in this community.

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"Having something "pony" enough is difficult to quantify but this fandom has gotten so huge we need to filter out some things otherwise there would be a swamp of stuff.""
----------------------------

I understand that, but as you know, when talking about original instrumental compositions there is literally no way to cement an "obvious" connection with the show aside from taking the artist's word for it that their work was inspired by FiM.

I'm not going to lie; as an avid fan of the show, an EQD reader since April, and as a musician, I'm pretty disappointed that it appears I will be unable to contribute to a fandom for a show I truly love. To make an important clarification, it was the fandom and its community I was hoping to be a part of through music, something which sadly seems unrealistic at this point.

Thank you for your time, and I'll be forwarding a copy of this response to the rest of the pre-listeners as well. If any of you wish to contact me further, feel free to message me through YouTube or via email ([email protected]).

- Scott (Vedrim)

I received a very quick response from AJTheEngineer asking me to add him on Skype if I use it to discuss it further, and I certainly appreciated the opportunity to do so but had to decline as I work nights from 11pm to 7am and needed to head to sleep. The rest of the responses I received are below:

Cyril's Response:

I'm not going to go, uh, point by point. However, I am cannot speak for before I was a prelistener. Also, we are only just now doing this response thing because I'm taking the time to do it... finally.

Trying to get Seth to implement at LEAST some kind of auto-response if things are rejected.

I honestly, aside from my prelistenership, don't have the time to listen to other musicians work and the instrumentals often escape my notice because I'm working on stuff myself heh.

This is what we require from ANY artist for their instrumentals, because we try not to assume, but what were you thinking about other than ponies in general? What sound were you going for? A character theme? What? This really is to show that the artist really knows the show and has a love for whatever they are making music for. The standards have only recently become... well standard... there was indeed a lot of flux in the standards and such so it's finally getting codified.

Icky's Response, which was easily the most understanding and supporting one I received; so, thanks for that, it's much appreciated =).

Hey Vedrim,

I wasn't there for this particular pre-listen session, so I looked up the song and I am really impressed!

I can see why they rejected it though, there isn't any clear theme going on. I can definitely hear the Ingram and Anderson elements in there, but there are plenty of other shows and games this song could be about.

It sounds like you emulated Ingram and Anderson's style of music, but that does not make a song MLP related.

That being said, I will talk about this with Cyril and the other pre-listeners because I'm really on the fence on this one. Its an amazing song, and it really has the MLP show feel to it.

Even if this gets rejected don't let that hold you down, you are definitely talented and I'd love to hear more MLP related music from you!

Icky.

RainbowDutch's Response:

hello vedrim

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Not sure what prompted you to respond now, but it's still appreciated.
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we do not have to respond if we dont want to.

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it was 100% inspired by both the show itself and its music, something which I believe 100% of brony musicians claim
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yes they do and that is why we put constraints to it. your song has no physical link to any aspect of the show. no returning melody, no linking lyrics, no well placed samples, it doesnt even portrait any event or caracter from the show (which we mostly look out for when judging songs). this is why your song didn't go through, with the reason, not pony enough.

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you're saying that you enjoyed the piece, but rejected it based on a perceived lack of connection to the show?
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yes, you are spot on.

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It was indeed submitted before, but the email reply I received was never from a pre-listener; the response I received was directly from [email protected], and it stated that "we can post it when it's done"
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goes against what you are saying here

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Someone on the MLR forums told me that in many cases Seth just forgets to post stuff because there are so many submissions, and I assumed that was the case here as well, hence my resubmission. If it was rejected the first time, nobody told me.
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seth didn't forget about it, we prelistend to it and the response said that it was rejected. In the description it said that it was not finished. We thought that this song wasen't ready for eqd cause it was not pony enough, and we thought you were planning on fixing that in the final version. so we told seth to respond to you saying that you should finish the song.

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it seems exceptions are made on a daily basis to push through piles of other instrumentals with connections just as 'tenuous' as mine was, based solely upon someone's standing in this community.
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please enlighten me here because I know of no song like this.

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there is literally no way to cement an "obvious" connection with the show aside from taking the artist's word for it that their work was inspired by FiM.
----------------------------

using melodies from the show or getting the same feeling across as a certain event or caracter are some examples where a track can relate to the show. a lot of times we get mediocre music of which the only connection to the show is the title, this ofcourse gets rejected.

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I'm pretty disappointed that it appears I will be unable to contribute to a fandom for a show I truly love. To make an important clarification, it was the fandom and its community I was hoping to be a part of through music, something which sadly seems unrealistic at this point.
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I am sorry but this is the biggest bullshit I have heard in days (I am sorry for swearing but I sometimes it is nessecairly to reflect what I am feeling). just because your song doesnt get on eqd doesnt mean you cannot contribute to the fandom. just because you made a song already means you are contributing to the fandom. eqd isnt the fandom (and anyone who believes otherwise should get themselfs checked).



these opinions are mine and not those of the other prelisteners or any other staff member of eqd.

greets rainbowdutch

RainbowDutch's Response, Part II:

also
achievement unlocked: spawn a HUGE argument in the prelisteners chat XD

In short, I'd like to thank the pre-listeners who responded to the message I sent them for their time, and I'm happy to hear that you're taking steps to streamline the submission/response process.

[Navron]

@Vedrim

I'm sorry, but that whole example is straight BS. Your song has more business getting on EqD than mine does, yet somehow my song was accepted, and yours wasn't, because it was not, "pony enough?"

I can understand the basic premise behind determining a musician's influence from the show, but in the case of yours, even just listening to the music it sounds WAYYYY more pony than mine, which is immensely darker and probably doesn't seem related to the show other than the story I had in my head that I was writing the song about.

Forgive my vulgarity in advance, but that is absolute horse shit.

Based on those email responses, it seems like the lesser known musicians have to implement samples from the show and/or limit their creativity to a theme and/or particular style in order to get prelistener approval.

Is this "new" method of critique going to prevent me from ever getting exposure again? What about other musicians like our own Makkon, with orchestral elements that lack any sampling from the show and/or don't revolve around an MLP sounding theme?

Meanwhile, it seems like these rules don't apply to other, already established artists, who get their songs featured on a dedicated post, despite even clearly being stated that they're not related to the show. Example

I understand the reasoning behind having prelisteners:
1. Prevent non-brony musicians from using samples and/or misleading titles in order to take advantage of the fandom to boost their own popularity.
2. Adhere to a basic standard of quality to filter out works that are muddy, distorted, or low-quality, to keep the competition high and inspire newer artists to work harder on their songs.

Instead, it seems the prelisteners seem to:
1. Judge how pony a song is based on sample use and/or theme revolving around the show.
2. Let well known musicians post non-pony related works.
3. Let non-brony musicians get their works featured because they use samples. Example 2 - Quote from description: "My brother (Nate Brown) has been producing electronic music under the name "Baasik" for around three months. This is his first attempt at Dubstep. I offered him a little exposure in exchange for a little dignity..." Granted, this was a collaboration between a brony musician and a non-brony musician, but the description clearly states it's meant to help his brother (non-brony) get more exposure.

[Freewave]

A big issue really is "Let well known brony musicians post non-pony related works." What's the point. It's clearly off-topic and these artists don't need EqD to help them get their music across. They have thousands of subscribers on soundcloud or youtube and they will get heard by just about any brony. If they're not pony they shouldn't be on EqD, period.

People aren't dumb, if a song has pony samples but no real message or ties to the show its barely pony. If an instrumental doesn't have samples but clearly is inspired by the show its mostly pony but its still debateable. It's a delicate balancing act but its clear who's writing music about the show, who's faking it, and who's hoping to break out to a bigger arena after they make it as a brony artist. EqD has very definite criteria to a certain degree and has a right to meet that and not spend days debating a rejection with a submitter. If they need more help going through submissions I too wouldn't mind be part of a listening party (I do plenty of that here and on soundcloud) but its important that they give feedback on a rejection if that's part of their terms of their site and it IS.

Ultimately as an artist the most important thing you can do is try again, submit again, and try to get better. Just complaining isn't a good course of action although it would be nice to see improverments with EqD in submissions to make it feel like we're all striving for improvements.

[Mundius]

...I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

EDIT: I knew EqD was broken, but not this kind of broken.

[Pickslide1992]

I guess I won't have a chance with them ever again, since instrumentals can be interpreted either way and celebronies who don't even do anything pony related get their own freaking post.

[Mundius]

I guess I won't have a chance with them ever again, since instrumentals can be interpreted either way and celebronies who don't even do anything pony related get their own freaking post.

I remember (back when I used to go to EqD) that every song they got was featured. Only one in a hundred songs was not and its because it was an early WIP.

Maybe we have too many bronies making music?

[TheSunAndTheRainfall]

Yes, I agree on the bit about the pony musicians getting non pony tracks posted on EqD. Alex S.' remix of Big Blue Wave is brilliant, but I don't think the original song bein sung by a voice actress from the show is enough to make it qualify as being pony enough to be posted on EqD.

Even though the prelisteners have stated their criteria for allowing or rejecting songs, it's been shown time and time again that this matter is the greyest shade of grey, as Navy Brony exemplified. But then again, most examples I can remember of this are from before the newest team of prelisteners was established (were the same people around at their charges before this? I don't know), so imma wait for a bit and stay tuned to how things progress with this new team before jumping to conclusions.