Dear MLR

Sports, politics, movies, videogames, questionable hobbies, photos from your family vacation, etc. Talk about stuff that isn't ponies or music. But do try to stay on topic and respectful of alternate opinions.

Re: Dear MLR

Postby Freewave » 17 Dec 2011 09:27

Diss Order wrote: It seems the community as a whole just expects me to KNOW it. I never entered a Toastbeard, I never participated to a remix war, I only recently found out about the bronies for charity thing... I always have to chase people around if I want to find stuff out. Nobody ever just messages me, or contacts me about anything, or just says 'hello' to have a chat. It's always the other way around, and every time I contact any one of you it always feels like I'm bothering you and taking away precious time that could be spent on other, more useful things...


This is a key thing to me because I've been in that same boat for the last few weeks. Sure most of us new members will figure things out (and maybe clumsily) and we'll feel involved but while there may be an intro thread where we introduce ourselves, there really isn't a MLR intro thread; on how people can get involved, feel involved, what's expected, and KNOW what's going on half the time. We're trying to play a lot of catch-up and its a bit frustrating as little is broadcasted out.

I'm assuming that having new people entering the site is seen as a good thing to keep it alive and thriving (sadly as some veterans are frustrated and leaving) as its still a community at the end of the day and I see new artists who are really good pop up all the time or people who should be as famous as "the top tier". That said new people need to do more than just post some great tracks and then leave if they want to be a part of a community (review other ponies tracks, join some conversations, respond back to comments, remix/collaborate, etc). I would hope that people would take an active and positive role in the forum itself if the chats aren't necessarily working or officiallly MLR sanctioned. If people are frustrated BY the chats and not liking that portion it makes sense they might skip getting involved there but then get involved on the forum maybe and respond to threads.

I have to think that type of discussion is good because people leaving w/o saying why and quitting bronie music althogether or letting issues continue to plague the community is not. Everyone has an invested stake in making this work out.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Diss Order » 17 Dec 2011 09:39

DJ-Pon3 wrote: I would hope that people would take an active and positive role in the forum itself if the chats aren't necessarily working or officiallly MLR sanctioned. If people are frustrated BY the chats and not liking that portion it makes sense they might skip getting involved there but then get involved on the forum maybe and respond to threads.


I found that to be rather hard, because a LOT of the context of this community, even in its forum posts, is related to stuff that happens outside of the forum. So someone could read an entire thread and still not know what it's about...

Anyway, your quote of mine kind of indicates that I blame all you for that, but actually that's not what I tried to say. What I did try to say, was that the problem was mostly me being a social retard... No accusations intended. :?
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby DJShamrock » 17 Dec 2011 09:47

Was it just me, or did anypony else notice how appropriate today's episode's moral was to our very situation?
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Diss Order » 17 Dec 2011 09:50

DJShamrock wrote:Was it just me, or did anypony else notice how appropriate today's episode's moral was to our very situation?
[16:31:08] Dissmas: ummm
[16:31:16] Dissmas: is it just me
[16:31:25] Dissmas: or was that episode appropriately timed as fuck
[16:31:33] Cyril Xmas (Connor): ...
[16:31:46] Cyril Xmas (Connor): Uh yes, its the proverbial "christmas" episode
[16:32:00 | Edited 16:32:05] AJ The Reindeer: Killed plenty of fanon and brought in a new song that was too damn short/
[16:32:51] Cyril Xmas (Connor): heh, lovely <3
[16:32:56] Cyril Xmas (Connor): that's the way it should be
[16:34:42] Dissmas: thats not what I meant cyril
[16:35:19] Dissmas: I mean,
[16:35:19] Cyril Xmas (Connor): Ohhh you mean
[16:35:21] Dissmas: ye
[16:35:55] Cyril Xmas (Connor): heh, You got a point.


Yes, I do.

Today's episode had the best timing it could possibly have.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Freewave » 17 Dec 2011 10:05

Diss Order wrote:
DJ-Pon3 wrote: I would hope that people would take an active and positive role in the forum itself if the chats aren't necessarily working or officiallly MLR sanctioned. If people are frustrated BY the chats and not liking that portion it makes sense they might skip getting involved there but then get involved on the forum maybe and respond to threads.


I found that to be rather hard, because a LOT of the context of this community, even in its forum posts, is related to stuff that happens outside of the forum. So someone could read an entire thread and still not know what it's about...


Well that's where the broadcasting what's going on in the community by mods can be really helpful. Assume that people are NOT in the know about everything and try to let EVERYONE in on what's going on.

Diss Order wrote: Anyway, your quote of mine kind of indicates that I blame all you for that, but actually that's not what I tried to say. What I did try to say, was that the problem was mostly me being a social retard... No accusations intended. :?


Not at all don't beat yourself up ;)
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby H8_Seed » 17 Dec 2011 10:29

"Love and tolerate" isn't representative of this or the general the pony community and our standards. It's representative of how human beings should treat each other, a message that has gotten lost in a world where nobody cares for anybody else more than gum on the bottom of their shoe (as trite as the expression is).

Look; as much as I love all of you guys (I seriously haven't had to endure any amount of disrespect or unfriendliness at all since I joined), you're absolutely free to treat people negatively and disrespect their boundaries. Understand, then, that you only stay in the community for as long as the mods are willing to tolerate you.

I'm glad that we have mods that want to do right by us as a community, but they're the mods and ultimately they're the only ones that have a say in how the community is run; they really don't have to take any feedback whatsoever into account if they don't want to. Nobody is entitled to this community, for ANY reason AT ALL. As harsh as it sounds, it's the truth. You're all big boys and girls now, so you have to be prepared to face the consequences of your actions if the mods disapprove.

This, by the way, is directed at nobody at all. Like I said, everyone here has been super awesome to me from the second that I joined, so it's just a general statement.

Also, Myth, I've never talked to you before but I want you to know that I'm upset for you and that I hope you change your mind about leaving.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Navron » 18 Dec 2011 00:36

Lots of long responses, but also lots of good responses. I wasn't around for the apparent situation that inspired this thread, but here's my outlook on the situation, and take in mind, this goes farther than just the MLR community.

I've been a brony since July, and after witnessing several big issues on EQD come and go, along with the general attitude of most bronies AND the haters, I am just simply going to put this out there:

- The brony community is very quickly becoming the next furry fandom.

Now before you take that the wrong way, let me state that I know many furries. I know what furries think of themselves as, and I know someone being a furry doesn't automatically mean they are some sick and twisted, r34 inspired shut-in that dresses up in fur suits.

The furry fandom is about a love for anthropomorphic characters, or feeling a deeper connection to animals, such as having a power animal. By the actual definition:
Furry: A liking to anthropomorphic characters.
Anthropomorphic: Having humanistic qualities, such as modern speech, upright walking, etc.

In regards to the actual definitions listed above, all bronies are furries, but then again, so is every 4yr old kid that likes Disney's The Rescuers. Unfortunately, when it comes to public relation and perception, the socially accepted definitions become the standard.

What does an average internet user think when somebody mentions furries? It means they are a shut-in fetishist that likes dressing up in fur suits and gets off to anthropomorphic characters. I would know because that's what I thought before I actually met a few furries and understood what the fandom really is.

Back to the original point. Bronies are becoming the next furry fandom. Our perception is going down the toilet, very fast, and I definitely think it has something to do with the concept of love and tolerance.

Love and tolerance does not mean the, "I'm going to love and tolerate the shit out of you," meme. Love and tolerance is what the brony community is founded on, because most bronies enjoy the show for its lack of cynicism, hate, and stereotypes, which is in every other cartoon. The original bronies from 4chan eventually won the 4chan flame war, not because of that meme, but because they didn't give in to the hate they were receiving. They legitimately didn't want to succumb to the hatred and prejudicial thinking of the internet, and instead envisioned a common interest people could unite upon to help influence a better world and internet.

That is why bronies are known to be charitable. That is why bronies don't feed the trolls.

Having been in the navy for almost 6 years now, I'm currently holding a higher position in my squadron that requires me to be present for many meetings with department heads (typically Lt. Commanders and higher), and schedule training for both pilots and aircrewmen. The biggest change that's resulted from that, is my realization that everything is about perception.

When I was a junior aircrewman, we'd get the passdown that working hours got shifted from 0730-1530, to 0630-1630. As an E4 just having reported in, it was simply a, "Well, that sucks," kind of response. Presently as an E5, I now know that the reason those working hours changed, was because the maintenance department saw us leaving earlier each day than them, and had the perception that we were slackers.

Long story short, perception is everything. Lately I've noticed many trolls shifting from the typical, "Ha, you guys are fags," comments, to, "You ****ing bronies and spewing your pony shit everywhere." It's no longer based on prejudice and stereotyping. They are legitimately pissed off at the fandom, and when you look at some members of the community, they do spam unrelated threads with pony, and they do draw r34 images, and make jokes about clopping, or make YT videos of clop cartoons, etc.

There are bad apples in every fandom, but we've adopted a very dismissive attitude towards them, or they hide behind the, "Shouldn't you be tolerating us," excuse.

If we let these people continue to remain in the spotlight, the brony fandom WILL become the next furry fandom, and every normal fan of the show who once proudly bore the name of "brony," will be frantically searching the vast corners of the web to eliminate all traces of themselves ever being associated with it.

So what do we do?

Don't encourage it. If you have a more than casual liking for the characters of the show, keep it to yourself, encourage others to keep it to themselves, and keep the main focus of the fandom on its non-cynical attitude, it's generous donations to charity, and the talented fan base. That isn't censorship, nor is it a non-tolerating attitude. That's realizing that as an individual, YOU are a representative of the brony community. You hold the power of making the fandom look bad, or making it look good.

Those of us in the military community have potentially huge repercussions if the fandom goes completely south. What happens if a coworker mentions that I'm a brony to a new officer at the squadron, and all that officer heard of the fandom was that it's comprised of a bunch of shut-in guys with a thing for beastiality? I don't particularly want to explain this whole situation to my CO one day, and I'm sure all other military bronies feel the same way. I want to get brofists when I walk into a store with my rainbow dash patch on, not have concerned mothers thinking I'm a pedophile.

Another founding principle of the community is the passion. The driving force behind the artwork, music, movies, parodies, etc. The original popular artists and musicians didn't get popular because they were trying to get popular. They had a deep loving for the show and undeniable gratitude to the fandom. Their songs were great because you knew it came from the heart: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHztyLREfM

Screw popularity and recognition. You shouldn't be making music for the sake of getting subs and/or becoming better than that other guy over there. Your goal should be to floor the fandom in awe and bring them to tears because of the love you put into your songs.

We've lost many, many, many respectable and well-known bronies over the past couple months. That shit stops now!
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Tsyolin » 18 Dec 2011 12:24

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This, a thousand times this. Well done Navy Brony, I have noticed the declining of this fandom myself as well. Brony attitude has been shifting from "Love and Tolerance" to "Hate the Haters". I see it everywhere, bronies hating on anyone who dislikes the show in a certain way. This cannot happen in this fandom, or we will become an infamous name.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Diss Order » 19 Dec 2011 15:35

We got this whole thread... THIS. WHOLE. THREAD. And still nobody gives a damn.

Had it, done with it, no arguing. I'm through. Good luck with your future endeavors.

Tot ziens.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Dr_Dissonance » 19 Dec 2011 19:52

Diss Order wrote:We got this whole thread... THIS. WHOLE. THREAD. And still nobody gives a damn.

Had it, done with it, no arguing. I'm through. Good luck with your future endeavors.

Tot ziens.



HUH???

WHAT HAPPENED NOW???
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Tephnos » 19 Dec 2011 20:53

Dr_Dissonance wrote:
Diss Order wrote:We got this whole thread... THIS. WHOLE. THREAD. And still nobody gives a damn.

Had it, done with it, no arguing. I'm through. Good luck with your future endeavors.

Tot ziens.



HUH???

WHAT HAPPENED NOW???
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Navron » 20 Dec 2011 01:47

Reading some of Diss Order's past comments, I'm kind of confused as to what final straw there was.

On the other hand, I think some of his complaints shouldn't have been complaints, such as...

I never participated to a remix war, I only recently found out about the bronies for charity thing... I always have to chase people around if I want to find stuff out. Nobody ever just messages me, or contacts me about anything...


Nobody should be held responsible to update Skype users with upcoming events and other topics that are posted on the forum. Remix wars and the MLR charity album have their own events section of the forum for that very reason.

Sorry for the inconvenience my presence has caused so far, but... I always, 24/7, try to be a helpful, kind and generous person. But it occurs SO much that I end up being misunderstood in an argument, or that I completely misinterpret someone's intentions, and then end up in a fight or yelling at someone and... It's easy for me to get an entire chatroom upset with me. And then when I leave, everyone has the impression that I'm some kind of loudmouthed internet asshole that's on a hate-crusade against 'furfags' and other 'creepy' things. I realize this, and it hurts. I really spend so much effort in making a good reputation for myself as being kind and helpful, and then 1 little incident blows up and I'm on the bottom of the social ladder again. Which probably isn't even the case, but that's what it feels like to me...


This I can sort of understand, as with online interaction, it's very common to be misunderstood. However (if you're reading this) if you hold yourself to a standard and are often misunderstood on what that standard is, the fault lies with with your own choice of wording. I hold myself to an exceptionally high standard online, and others recognize it, because I spend a lot of time and effort to choose my words carefully to ensure the right message is being conveyed. If I have any doubts as to how my post will be received, I'll reword it in order to make it clear and concise, and have the least probability of being taken in any other way than intended. Going back to your post, if your intentions are good but you're being received the wrong way, such as being mistaken for, "some kind of loudmouthed internet asshole," then you need to work on your wording, not gripe against other users for failing to adapt to that particular trait.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Freewave » 20 Dec 2011 09:06

Also if you (this is directed to anyone) don't handle yourself well on Skype or IRC chats or don't feel you fit in there, don't use them. If you feel yourself getting riled up take a step away. The chats really are different every day you show up depending who's on there and sometimes you will be the odd man out. There's enough ways to get involved on the forum, Toastbeards, and projects if the chats aren't your thing. Big thing is to maintain the positivity and to be able to sense it when you're losing your temper.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Interrobang Pie » 20 Dec 2011 09:10

This thread is 7 pages long.

What the hell has been going on.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Tiaaaaa » 20 Dec 2011 10:04

NavyBrony wrote:Stuff with other stuff being stuff

To be fair, Diss Order did apologize for how it sounded. And that aside he wasn't talking about how it was people's fault he didn't know, he was simply listing it as a symptom of feeling ignored. He also wasn't blaming other people for misinterpreting him. Exactly the opposite. He was simply saying that he knows what his actions can cause. He was saying he was upset that he might get branded over one specific event.

I have no idea what's been going on, but I'm assuming it has something to do with the megaskype. But since (at least from what I understand) it isn't officially affiliated with MLR there's not really much we can do from here. But that being said, if you don't like megaskype then there are other venues (even other venues on skype) for you to be in.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Mundius » 20 Dec 2011 12:08

Tiaaaaa wrote:But that being said, if you don't like megaskype then there are other venues (even other venues on skype) for you to be in.


If we don't crash it with spam, that is. Navy is right, I'm going to keep bronies from becoming the next overhated fandom for a month or two. If it's worse, then I'm probably leaving to live quietly as N723.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Senator Myth » 20 Dec 2011 12:27

-
Last edited by Senator Myth on 21 Dec 2011 11:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Navron » 21 Dec 2011 01:03

From the words of one of my high school band teachers.

"Never forget these 2 things when you go off on your own and interact with new people:
Common Respect
Common Courtesy"

2 terms I will never forget.
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Re: Dear MLR

Postby Makkon » 22 Dec 2011 00:43

There's a lot of hurt feelings in this community, scars that don't heal. But they do fade.

Perhaps it's wrong of us to impose a system of ideals onto other people. As we've seen in this thread, the alleged offenders have remained silent and their disposition is exactly the same. In fact, I feel it's caused an even greater division among us, because it instilled a fiery indignation for both parties. I've been reminded again that we can't change people. Influence yes, but they are free agents and have the right to act according to their will.

This is all trivial, and I feel immensely depressed in seeing our attempts sputtering out and making things worse.

But at the same time, I'm glad that this conversation happened. It brought some serious issues to the forefront. We needed to talk about these things. We need to remember, and we need to be aware.

If there's anything I've gained from this experience, it's an appreciation for those friends I have made in this community. If this this entire placed implodes from hatred, disrespect, and intolerance, I still have the friends I made along the way.

Guys, I'm going to try and stick to this as long as it will last. All I ask in return is that you remember that we are all people here, who make mistakes and have weaknesses and tendencies; try to be honest and tolerant of eachother. If we can uphold this standard, and above all remember to forgive eachother, we'll make it.

Sincerely

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