Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3 on)

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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby v.lossity » 06 Nov 2013 20:24

itroitnyah wrote:
Freewave wrote:Honestly we've spent 8 pages talking about the need of why we want to do this, how we want to, and why it's different then what's come before. I really do suggest reading through vs repeating ourselves to every cynic who enters the thread. This ISN"T a music label designed to get a batch of smaller musicians with varying quality noticed by a bigger brony community. It's not self-centered like that. It's a music blog designed to spotlight those who do a great job currently and are worth noticing by a musician or listener who is still interested in listening to this music. Not for your avg Tombstone fan but the person who really loves brony music and listening to or making it still.

As it stands we'll likely dial back some of the more ambitious elements of this blog and focus it as more of a MLR community tumblr with some other stuff as an addition of news, reviews, & events that will be on BMD's existing blog. We can always grow it and expand if we want to and there's an audience who wants that. But we really aren't looking for continued opinions on it at this point if you think its a bad idea. I don't mind some healthy skepticism (on what you would recommend doing) that i've come to expect from MLR but I'm sick of the continued cynicism from those who come in here to derail efforts to make something positive happen.
Alright, sorry for not reading all 8 pages.

However, I don't see how MiAmore, or ER were self centered. MiAmore was designed by people from this forum and didn't get very far at all. Furthermore, I still don't see the difference between the blog you guys are working on and EquestrianReverb, other than the forum linked to ER was actually part of the site directly. You can tell me as many times as you'd like that "we're not self centered" and "we're for the bronies who truly love pony music", and it doesn't mean anything to me because that is exactly what ER said, and that is what they acted on, only to surrender themselves a few weeks later to #ProjectPurplePony or whatever.

So if there is a solution on how to make this blog succeed somewhere in the past 8 pages, I haven't seen it, and apparently the other cynical people here haven't either, unless they failed to read much of the past 8 pages.

I think this is one of those times where an old saying is pretty handy.

If you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything at all.

If you really care enough to try to improve what they are creating, PM the people involved.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby itroitnyah » 06 Nov 2013 20:41

The problem with the saying is that nobody improves if they don't speak their minds.

I'm not insulting anybody here.

Also, this thread is here for improving the blog that these guys are working on. So, yeah, don't tell me to pm the people involved when I'm posting in the correct spot, haha.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby v.lossity » 06 Nov 2013 20:47

You know what, you are right. Just because I dont like what you are saying or how you are saying it doesnt mean that you shouldnt say it here. I just dont like seeing people argue about (what I see as pointless) stuff.

Nevermind.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby Freewave » 07 Nov 2013 09:17

itroitnyah wrote:The problem with the saying is that nobody improves if they don't speak their minds.

I'm not insulting anybody here.

Also, this thread is here for improving the blog that these guys are working on. So, yeah, don't tell me to pm the people involved when I'm posting in the correct spot, haha.


But people have spoke their minds previously and i don't want all the neighsayers who are not involved in this project to drown out the activities of those ON MLR who are trying to get this going in THIS thread. It's imperative that if we are trying to get a community blog that's an extension of mlr and bmd to foster a community spirit back tho this scene that people not try to shoot it down during its set up phase. Again those previous efforts were NOT directly created by MLR community moderators or members as an MLR driven project and this one is. I expect people here not to demolish projects that are designed for this community and forum's continued relevence.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby itroitnyah » 07 Nov 2013 20:29

Just because I don't think it's going to succeed, doesn't mean I'm shooting it down.

Furthermore, repeating the same thing the others have done and failed doing so, will more than likely not yield better results than the ones before. I'm not critiquing like I am because I want this to fail, I'm giving my critiques because I have not seem any grand scheme, nor heard of any, that will be different from what the other sites have done, and you cannot ignore this if you want the site to succeed.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby ClaviSound » 08 Nov 2013 03:21

itroitnyah wrote:Furthermore, repeating the same thing the others have done and failed doing so, will more than likely not yield better results than the ones before. I'm not critiquing like I am because I want this to fail, I'm giving my critiques because I have not seem any grand scheme, nor heard of any, that will be different from what the other sites have done, and you cannot ignore this if you want the site to succeed.

What follows is not me speaking for FIMmusic, but for myself.

I like music. I like music a lot. It is a passion of mine that's been with me from since I was very little. I literally live it, because not a day goes by where I don't listen to it.

I love writing, too. I happen to be good at writing (in my humble opinion), and expressing myself through the medium of language has been a very precious gift to me.

It is the duty of a producer of art to learn. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the moment I create something without learning anything while doing it is the moment I have failed as a creator. It is not merely the fact something is brought into being, it is that the thing brought into being changes people. Even if it's only the maker, that's still one person. If you can change one person, you can change the world.

I write because I enjoy doing it, and it gives meaning and purpose to my life. I make music because i enjoy doing it, and I can meet others who like and make it as well.

So maybe that's what makes this blog different, at least for me. I don't care whether it's successful. I'm writing about my love, for my own love's sake. Why would I write for anyone or anything else? When I sit down and begin writing, I'm not going to think, "What do the readers want and I'll write that," I'm going to think about what I find cool about what I'm listening to, and write why I like it.

So maybe, just maybe, what makes this blog different is that it won't be focused on becoming successful. What makes this blog different is that it's not going to aim for artist exposure, nor is it supposed to compete with Equestria Daily, Everfree Network, pony.fm, or any other site to advertise music to listeners.

Maybe what makes this blog different is that it's just people, and their love for the music that brightens their lives. Nothing else matters.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby itroitnyah » 08 Nov 2013 06:44

Alright, so now the difference I've found, as Clav has mentioned, is that this blog is going to be less about making people famous, and more about just blogging because you like it. Which is good and all, so if that's what you're aiming for and none of the mods on the blog care about how popular it gets, you more than likely won't get much traffic, which is acceptable with you guys, and you guys have succeeded in doing what you guys are doing.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby Freewave » 08 Nov 2013 08:41

In case you hadn't noticed MLR and my site BMD don't have oodles of traffic but they do what they are designed for and still matter to people who use them. We shouldn't pull the plug on them and I'd like to see them start growing again tbh. I'm not aiming for the blog I've proposed to be something bigger then EQD or Everfree (because that won't happen), I just want something much more relevent to what i want to see in a music blog or site and something more community centered (ie something that matters to musicians).

I don't care about making people E-famous as most will never accomplish whats the first wave of musicians have and I have no doubt that those who are doing well off currently will; focus on themselves, eventually leave to focus on careers outside of this fandom, or continue to not assist in helping people get there. I care about those who still enjoy making music in this community and who care about their peers and a community. I want to see if there's still room for community activity for those who don't frequent mlr anymore but would like to still feel a link to what's going on here. I'm sure MLR would like to better informed on what's happening outside of here as well. This site will be an extension of this forum. This is circuitfry's tumblr idea which never really took off or happened effectively, re-imagined.

I care about focusing attention on those good artists who are still making today and deserve some more community love and attention (whteher they are on mlr or are not). Regular shout outs that aren't based on submitting tracks but are freely given. I care about giving MLR and BMD a stronger voice inside this community and outside of MLR's static forum. That's really all we've ever been proposing at its core. Again this is not a music label or a get rich (promotion) scheme and it never was. This is about taking some of the passion that exists on MLR and for those still listening to this music and putting it to good use.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby A2Z » 08 Nov 2013 21:34

I see a problem with compromise here. I don't think we can effectively run a blog that hopes to grow community liveliness, but at the same time be so humble as to just post music from random places and not care about garnering traffic. Basically it wants to be important, but not care to be important at the same time. We need to come to a decision as to what will happen with this blog in the long run and what function it will serve for everyone.

Personally, whether or not the community fosters into something greater than it is, or dissolves over time into oblivion and memories is of no concern to me. I just want to help some inspired people do something nice and at least try to make a difference. We need to find ways to turn talk into action, otherwise nothing will get done. Talking is necessary, but without thinking of ways to get to the next step and imagine an actual project in motion this is all just chit-chat.

For right now we have the intent of running a blog of sorts to post music we like from different artists that aren't necessarily recognized. We want listeners to have an easier way of finding a larger variety of music essentially.

itroitnyah makes a lot of good points that I have considered. What will make us different from what others have done? Is it the consistency? Or perhaps the format of posts? Quality or variety of content?

Somewhere we can start to help answer some of these is to find out what these other blogs/sites failed at. What did they do wrong? Let's know what pitfalls to avoid so we know to steer clear of those obstacles, and perhaps even look at what other blogs/sites have done correctly so far.

So there it is then, where did those other sites fail at where we can succeed? Let's answer that and not waste time thinking others aren't trying to help, or just talking about issues/problems and not talking about solutions.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby Freewave » 08 Nov 2013 21:56

1. Most failed sites became single person affairs and were no longer run by groups.
2. Many duplicated what EQd was doing and took direct track submissions. They relied on track spotlights over artist spotlights.
3. Most used blogspot which does not have a feed like tumblr. You have to go there and visit frequently to see updates, tumblr is different and we'll be using BMD's blogspot when we need to for cross-promotion.
4. Most did not rely on a network of other smaller sites for promotion
5. I don't think any of them tried doiong interviews with well known bronies or reaching out to them.
6. They weren't part of an exisiting framework such as we have with MLR and BMD
7. They don't exist now and are no longer competition. There's still plenty of room currently.
8. I look at what other smaller sites are doing currently and none of them resemble what we are suggesting with fimmusic. We are musician foucsed which is important as musicians often tell their audiences what is cool and what to support. This will hopefully be something everyone can rally behind.
9. I've been a part of the community long enough (2 years) to beware the pitfalls and have a good idea how the community works. I have a pretty successful blog that I've been running for over a year and am a mlr moderator. That's experience.
10. Anyone else out there who may given up on a failed blog or wants to participate can join in. A large staff is going to be a really solid advantage and I think having guest articles and features will bring us something unique.
11. Tumblr is a social blog and there isn't a solid brony music tumblr out there and certainly not one that's got our community ties. What we do in featuring other musicians will multiply with subscriptions, reblogs, likes, and word of mouth. Social blogging is a tumblr advantage. We will tag for excellent archiving as well.
12. We've got positivity on our side at a time where there's a lot of negativity, that's an advantage. This community was founded on that.
13. The community is awash with more new and unknown talent then ever. It makes sense to assist in clearing thru the clutter and highlighting some great underrated artists. We write the blog we want for the reasons we would read a blog ourselves. We are our own audience and people will appreciate that we're different then the rest as we ARE the music community.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby itroitnyah » 09 Nov 2013 08:41

So far, #3, 4, 6 and 11 are the only items in your list that are different than what all or most the other promotional sites had, and 4 and 6 are only minor differences.

However, there are a few other of the items that I'd like to take note on:

#2: I don't see how this effects why they failed. Moreover, Equestrian Reverb also did some artist features

#9: Be careful not to get caught up in your experience.

#10: Hm, didn't pretty much all the previous promotional blogs/sites claim to have a large solid team as well? Ah yes, that's right, they did.

#12: Hm, didn't pretty much all the previous promotional blogs/sites start out with positivity as well? Ah yes, that's right, they did.

#13: Hm, didn't pretty much all the previous promotional blogs/sites make these claims about how they're going to sort the trash and bring attention to those who deserve it as well? Ah yes, that's right, they did.

Numbers 1, 5, 7 and 10 all have varying degrees of truth in them, so I can't argue those very much.

#8 just plain confuses me. While not all of the promotional blogs/sites had focus on musicians, I don't see why this will offer a huge advantage. Here, let me list a disadvantage. I'll have no idea what songs that the artist has made that are the big and incredible ones and which ones aren't all that good. And I don't want to go over to their channel and go song by song listening to try and find a good one, I'll lose my attention span pretty quickly.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby Freewave » 09 Nov 2013 14:24

Itroitnyah please chill with the cynicism. I made that list for A2Z who is assisting us with getting the blog launched and is interested in seeing it succeed and had a legitimate question. I'm not going to block and pary every single protest that you personally hurl this way that it's not going to succeed. I've done that already. Still not satisfied? Don't care, move on plz. I expect more from MLR members then what you are doing currently.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby itroitnyah » 09 Nov 2013 15:22

Well excuuuuuse me for pointing out problems with your list. You know, I'm trying to offer criticism here, and all you seem to care about is getting people to tell you that your plans are Grade-A Amazing.

Also, nothing I have been saying has been cynical, and you only seem to be using that word in place of "go away faggot" because you want to try and keep your cool. And frankly, if you want to see cynicism, go ahead and look at some of HMages and ChocolateChicken's posts above. I may express some of the same beliefs that they have about this blog, but at least I'm giving more critique than I am shooting down the whole blog idea. Jesus, Freewave. You can't just throw around demeaning terms just because somebody disagrees with your idea.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby CitricAcid » 09 Nov 2013 15:36

Freewave, is there anything in particular that you are still wanting comments or criticism on with regard to this project? Since it is already underway, I imagine that there are certain things that aren't negotiable at this point (such as whether or not it should be a tumblr). What aspects are already set in stone?
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby ClaviSound » 09 Nov 2013 16:28

itroitnyah wrote:Also, nothing I have been saying has been cynical, and you only seem to be using that word in place of "go away faggot" because you want to try and keep your cool. And frankly, if you want to see cynicism, go ahead and look at some of HMages and ChocolateChicken's posts above.

itroitnyah wrote:#10: Hm, didn't pretty much all the previous promotional blogs/sites claim to have a large solid team as well? Ah yes, that's right, they did.

#12: Hm, didn't pretty much all the previous promotional blogs/sites start out with positivity as well? Ah yes, that's right, they did.

#13: Hm, didn't pretty much all the previous promotional blogs/sites make these claims about how they're going to sort the trash and bring attention to those who deserve it as well? Ah yes, that's right, they did.

I personally appreciate criticism, but not flippant criticism. At least be civil and stop using these passive-aggressive tactics to make your point.


I don't understand what's so bad about at least trying. What's there to lose? It's not like the fandom's over if we fail. It didn't end when your aforementioned MiAmore and Equestrian Reverb kicked the bucket, and if it turns out what we've tried doesn't work out, we'll just start over again. The only time you "fail" is when you give up.

Which brings me to another point, Equestrian Reverb only failed because of things completely out of their control, and MiAmore Media was really more of a label than anything else, which is not what we're doing here. I personally am a bit skeptical of a label-oriented concept in this fandom because a label's only purpose is to "get music out there," and if the label faces that exact problem, well, that doesn't really work, does it? But again, we aren't trying to pull in music under our name, we're just giving a hub that lets you find it easier.

You're giving criticisms. That's good. We need those to make sure we don't accidentally pass a dumb idea because no one spoke up. But you need to make your case a little more effectively than just pointing out flaws. What do you like about it? What keystone ideas have you seen in successful blogs you don't think we've implemented? Do you think certain ideas could be combined to make a more effective whole? Give us more than just "I don't like this." We're willing to take your advice; all you have to do is actually give it to us.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby Freewave » 09 Nov 2013 16:35

itroitnyah wrote:Words
.


This is exactly the type of behavior i told you was unacceptable on this forum. Don't ignore several warnings from a moderator. Just because we're short staffed in that department doesn't mean you get to act however you want, and I'm not going to put up with that.

CitricAcid wrote:Freewave, is there anything in particular that you are still wanting comments or criticism on with regard to this project? Since it is already underway, I imagine that there are certain things that aren't negotiable at this point (such as whether or not it should be a tumblr). What aspects are already set in stone?


At this point this thread is supposed to be for FIMM staff communicating the coordination of the site coming into existence this week. There's so much activity in the skype that we often highlight major points in here. It's really not designed for further critique at this point because that's not needed until the site is out. I'll have a different thread up when a real launch happens but we have enough on our plates w/o people trying to shoot this down on mlr.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby Callenby » 09 Nov 2013 22:05

The time for it has kind of passed, but I thought I'd share this anyway.

The sailors watched as their beloved ship sank into the ocean.
"How awful," one of them said, "I always loved that ship. It served us so well."
"It still could," another added, "I'd like to have that ship back in our fleet."
The rest nodded in agreement, all except one who chimed in with "I'm not so sure. Ships and sailing aren't fun for me personally anymore, so everyone should just stop doing them."
The others disagreed.
"But what could we do?" the first asked, "We're only all experienced sailors with a vested interest in keeping it afloat, and who could easily swim out there, patch up the hull, and steer it back into port."
"True, true. In fact, the materials to fix it are right here beside us."
The sailors remained on shore.
Eventually, the ship sank completely. The sailors solemnly shook their heads at the utter waste and soon began to disperse.
"What a shame, someone should really have done something."
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby Nine Volt » 09 Nov 2013 23:30

I can't let an argument go too long without entering into it (actually I posted once before but I deleted it shortly after). My own opinion on the blog is at the end of this post.

Alright, look.

Itroitnyah, while I agree with a fair portion of what you're saying, you should tone down the passive-aggressiveness.

Freewave, you should stop dismissing every critical comment as "cynicism". Believe it or not, itroitnyah is actually (probably) trying to help this succeed by pointing out flaws he sees, albeit in a... "rough" way. He's not being "cynical" for the sake of being "cynical".

Callenby, don't use strawman arguments (ihopethat'sastrawmani'mnottoogoodwithlogicalfallacies).

And now for the dreaded line by line. Bite me.

Freewave wrote:Itroitnyah please chill with the cynicism. I made that list for A2Z who is assisting us with getting the blog launched and is interested in seeing it succeed and had a legitimate question.

You posted it in the public thread and if you had intended it for A2Z specifically you should've PM'd him, but whatever it doesn't really matter that much so we shouldn't keep pursuing the subject so don't bother me about it.

Freewave wrote:I'm not going to block and pary every single protest that you personally hurl this way that it's not going to succeed.

Do you honestly think that itroitnyah's one and single goal in this thread is to destroy this idea? This isn't a perfect idea and I seriously doubt that itroitnyah really cares all that much whether it sinks or swims, and though he could've worded his responses better (though you could have as well) he doesn't seem to have any kind of vendetta against this project, just a slightly cynical outlook.

itroitnyah wrote:Also, nothing I have been saying has been cynical, and you only seem to be using that word in place of "go away faggot" because you want to try and keep your cool. And frankly, if you want to see cynicism, go ahead and look at some of HMages and ChocolateChicken's posts above.

I agree with everything except the part in italics. Freewave, stop throwing around the "cynical" label to anyone you don't want to directly tell "stop posting" but you still want to stop posting. It's not cool, and while there is a lot of cynicism on this site it's not because we want to destroy any attempts at something major. It's because we've seen so many ideas similar ideas fail.

itroitnyah (goddamn why is your name so hard to type) wrote:I may express some of the same beliefs that they have about this blog, but at least I'm giving more critique than I am shooting down the whole blog idea.

It's barbed critique, but it is critique.

itroitnyah wrote:Jesus, Freewave. You can't just throw around demeaning terms just because somebody disagrees with your idea.

In principle, this is correct. Not sure whether or not to consider "cynical" demeaning.

eery (see, his name is easy) wrote:You're just repeating the same thing over and over. You're offering nothing that will help the site, just a general message that you think it will fail. You claim this is because its poorly thought out. SEVERAL members then point to thoughtout plans.

He's giving reasons why he thinks the blog will fail. And the "though out" plans aren't perfect either, so don't act like they're flawless.

eery wrote:In the words of a certain mod that has dissapeared: "Don't be such a wet sandwich

Said mod also used "wet sandwich" to describe just about anyone who didn't agree with him, even if his ideas were poorly thought out (note that I'm not saying this idea is poorly thought out, quite the opposite in fact).

eery wrote:Edit: Also freewave didnt say anything demeaning. what are you on about

"Demeaning" is a highly subjective term in contexts like this. It's best we don't get too deep into it but the way Freewave used the word "cynical" made it seem like it was intended to be demeaning.

-lalala I don't want to quote Clavi's post but I agree with everything they said-

Freewave wrote:This is exactly the type of behavior i told you was unacceptable on this forum. Don't ignore several warnings from a moderator. Just because we're short staffed in that department doesn't mean you get to act however you want, and I'm not going to put up with that.

Look, it looks to me like you're overreacting because you disagree with itroitnyah and don't want to just tell him "fuck off". A lot of people (myself one of them) respect you; you shouldn't need to resort to moderator power to end a relatively calm dispute (and it is a relatively calm dispute. A non-calm dispute would have people violating Godwin's law and people slinging insults left and right rather than just this pissy passive-aggressiveness).

I'm kind of unsure I want to post this because open disagreement with a mod is apparently no longer allowed in this thread or something, but I will anyway.


Freewave wrote:At this point this thread is supposed to be for FIMM staff communicating the coordination of the site coming into existence this week. There's so much activity in the skype that we often highlight major points in here. It's really not designed for further critique at this point because that's not needed until the site is out. I'll have a different thread up when a real launch happens but we have enough on our plates w/o people trying to shoot this down on mlr.

You should probably change the title of the thread to indicate the main topic has changed. Also, you should update the OP or something. That's probably at least partly why this whole fiasco happened.

Alright, I feel like this covered every base except my own opinion on the actual thing, so here we go:
I personally see no reason why this blog should not happen, but at the same time I think the pro-blog side should at least listen to the criticism of the neutral side, however barbed, passive-aggressive, or caustic it may be (I say neutral because it doesn't really seem like anyone's actively opposed to the blog). Even if it fails it's not like the brony fandom will take any kind of big hit (not like I would really care or notice, but it's still important to many/most(?) people here).

So yeah. Provided Freewave doesn't ban me or something for that quote up there (that's a joke, by the way) I'll see you all later.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby ClaviSound » 10 Nov 2013 02:39

Nine Volt wrote:-lalala I don't want to quote Clavi's post but I agree with everything they said-

Aw, and I was so looking forward to it too! (For future reference, I'm a he.)

Nine Volt (and now ClaviSound because he's unoriginal) wrote:And now for the dreaded line by line. Bite me.

Nine Volt wrote:You posted it in the public thread and if you had intended it for A2Z specifically you should've PM'd him, but whatever it doesn't really matter that much so we shouldn't keep pursuing the subject so don't bother me about it.

You know how silly it is to give your argument and then say "don't bother me about it," right? I mean, look, you're right, because a post on a forum thread publicly invites response (that is the point of a forum after all - sorry Freewave), but all the same it's easier to drop matters by simply not responding yourself instead of telling the other guy not to respond.

Nine Volt wrote:Do you honestly think that itroitnyah's one and single goal in this thread is to destroy this idea? This isn't a perfect idea and I seriously doubt that itroitnyah really cares all that much whether it sinks or swims, and though he could've worded his responses better (though you could have as well) he doesn't seem to have any kind of vendetta against this project, just a slightly cynical outlook.

no itroitnyah caused teh illuminati he must die

In all seriousness, I would take the guy much more seriously if he offered alternatives. Again, the golden rule of feedback is substance and helpfulness. He is explaining why he thinks certain things aren't going to work, yes, but he's not being all that helpful, nor is he giving insight to how successful blogs work and what we should emulate. (He hasn't posted since I asked, though, so I apologize in advance for still judging him.)

Nine Volt wrote:It's barbed critique, but it is critique.

Would you eat a cake with rat droppings on it? I mean, it's still a cake.

Of course, that's not very nice of me to twist it that way, but while negative criticism may be criticism, it's still negative.

Nine Volt wrote:He's giving reasons why he thinks the blog will fail. And the "though out" plans aren't perfect either, so don't act like they're flawless.

Once again, I (and I would hope most of the others supporting this so far) am perfectly receptive to feedback, but only if it is given in the first place. He's giving reasons why he thinks the blog will fail... and nothing else. Likewise, if the details aren't perfect either, how should we improve them? (That question goes towards both itroitnyah and Nine Volt, as well as anyone else unsure of the current foundation we're using at the moment.) GIVE US YOUR KNOWLEDGE SO WE MAY SUCK GOOD IDEAS OUT OF YOUR BRAINS

Nine Volt wrote:I'm kind of unsure I want to post this because open disagreement with a mod is apparently no longer allowed in this thread or something, but I will anyway.

Sorry Freewave, but I think you sort of... lacked justification in your replies. I don't like itroitnyah's attitude any more than you do, but it's not nice to do everything short of telling him to shut up to his face. Now, were he to heckle the project and then say he has no clue how to make it better? Yeah, that's not cool. But as it is, if he has an idea for a better plan, then he needs to say it, and you need to ask him about that before things get unfriendly.

That being said, itroitnyah should have been suggesting things from the start without needing that kind of prompting. Lesson learned, let's get to being productive on improving this blog.

Nine Volt wrote:You should probably change the title of the thread to indicate the main topic has changed. Also, you should update the OP or something. That's probably at least partly why this whole fiasco happened.

Good idea, should happen ASAP. Even with the title change from just the "Downward Trajectory" bit, it's still confusing and tl;dr to make your way through all of the exposition from page 3 to page 9.

Nine Volt wrote:I personally see no reason why this blog should not happen, but at the same time I think the pro-blog side should at least listen to the criticism of the neutral side, however barbed, passive-aggressive, or caustic it may be (I say neutral because it doesn't really seem like anyone's actively opposed to the blog). Even if it fails it's not like the brony fandom will take any kind of big hit (not like I would really care or notice, but it's still important to many/most(?) people here).

I would love to listen to criticism of the neutral side, as you put it, if they submitted their own suggestions. Destructive criticism would turn constructive, there would be a clearer set of differing ideas presented, implementing them would be more effective, and we'd all be happy campers.

And like you said, this blog doesn't hold the fandom in its hands, and probably never will. (That's the job of Equestria Daily, dohohohoho)

In summation, I agree with Nine Volt on quite a number of things, but the reason why that agreement hasn't been put into action is because there's nothing to act on except the facets that we know people take issue with, which is kind of like having the check engine light on but not knowing what parts are malfunctioning and there are like five outdated manuals sort of lying around the vehicle's upholstered floor with some pages torn out and the covers are stained with Pepsi and yeah it's kinda like that.

In other words, cool, we understand that our plans aren't perfect. Whose are, especially when the blog sort of sprung up spontaneously? ...But what's not perfect with them? You must explain these things so that we can take them into account and use it to make the blog better.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby Nine Volt » 10 Nov 2013 03:46

Nine Volt (and now ClaviSound because he's unoriginal) ((and now 9V again because why not)) wrote:And now for the dreaded line by line. Bite me.


*DISCLAIMER*
Despite fairly copious swearing on the part of my response to eery's response, I can assure you that I am not, in fact, mad. I'm in fact quite chill. It's 39 degrees (4 celsius), 4:45 in the morning, and my room doesn't have heat, so I'm very chill.

eery wrote:
Nine Volt wrote:
eery (see, his name is easy) wrote:You're just repeating
the same thing over and over. You're offering nothing that will help the site, just a general message that you think it will fail. You claim this is because its poorly thought out. SEVERAL members then point to thoughtout plans.

He's giving reasons why he thinks the blog will fail. And the "though out" plans aren't perfect either, so don't act like they're flawless.

I dont think its flawless. I didn't say that. I said what you quoted. Thought it. With thought behind them. I think its a good start, and I dont see any reason not to do it, and if certain aspects fail, fix them as you go. Thats how you do shit. And he isn't giving reasons why the blog will fail. He's giving reasons why it won't become so popular. Which it doesn't seem to be its main intrest anyways. Making a quality platform, then secondly aquiring userbase.

"Thought out" does not mean "with thought behind it". Thought out means that something has been completely thought through and all realistic scenarios accounted for, which these plans have not been. Ergo, they are not "thought out".

eery wrote:
Nine Volt wrote:
eery wrote:In the words of a certain mod that has thankfully disappeared: "Don't be such a wet sandwich
Said mod also used "wet sandwich" to describe just about anyone who didn't agree with him, even if his ideas were poorly thought out (note that I'm not saying this idea is poorly thought out, quite the opposite in fact).

Haha, yeah, that was fun.

Was it, eery? Was it? I don't think it was really that fucking fun.

Not really relevant to what I meant, which was quite obvious tho

It's actually pretty fucking relevant to what you meant, eery. You were saying that to indicate that you thought us critics of this blog should stop being "Debbie downers". That we should stop raining on others' parades. I know what you fucking meant and what I said was completely relevant.

, so thanks for bringing up that complettely unrelevant remark! Thanks 9volt!

See my previous message, champ.

See, that's exactly the type of passive-aggressive SHIT we don't need in this thread.

eery wrote:
Nine Volt wrote:
eery wrote:Edit: Also freewave didnt say anything demeaning. what are you on about
"Demeaning" is a highly subjective term in contexts like this. It's best we don't get too deep into it but the way Freewave used the word "cynical" made it seem like it was intended to be demeaning.
But he was being cynical. I took it as a "Back off, you're not helping" which was true. I don't see why you're defending this.

Yeah, being something doesn't mean that being called that something isn't demeaning. Someone could be acting gayly (as in, like a stereotypical homosexual) and being called a faggot would still be demeaning, right? And also, what you took Freewave's "stop being cynical" comments as could very well be completely different from what itroitnyah took it as, so thanks for bringing up that completely non-relevant remark! Thanks eery! Isn't that just so annoying?

------------------------------------------------------------

ClaviSound wrote:
Nine Volt wrote:-lalala I don't want to quote Clavi's post but I agree with everything they said-

Aw, and I was so looking forward to it too! (For future reference, I'm a he.)

Thought so, didn't want to assume.

ClaviSound wrote:You know how silly it is to give your argument and then say "don't bother me about it," right? I mean, look, you're right, because a post on a forum thread publicly invites response (that is the point of a forum after all - sorry Freewave), but all the same it's easier to drop matters by simply not responding yourself instead of telling the other guy not to respond.
Thanks; I only said that because it was a side matter that nonetheless I felt the need to respond to but didn't really care enough to get into any kind of longer discussion about following the line-by-line.

ClaviSound wrote:In all seriousness, I would take the guy much more seriously if he offered alternatives. Again, the golden rule of feedback is substance and helpfulness. He is explaining why he thinks certain things aren't going to work, yes, but he's not being all that helpful, nor is he giving insight to how successful blogs work and what we should emulate. (He hasn't posted since I asked, though, so I apologize in advance for still judging him.)
Well, would you give alternatives to something that you really don't care much about? It's not itroitnyah's idea and he doesn't have anything invested into it, so why should he care? He's got no reason to.

Btw, itroitnyah, I know you don't need anyone to fight your battles for you, but I just felt like jumping in. View-wise and opinion-wise we tend to be pretty much the same person though so it's cool.

ClaviSound wrote:Would you eat a cake with rat droppings on it? I mean, it's still a cake.

Of course, that's not very nice of me to twist it that way, but while negative criticism may be criticism, it's still negative.
Just cut away the part with the rat droppings ;)

ClaviSound wrote:Once again, I (and I would hope most of the others supporting this so far) am perfectly receptive to feedback, but only if it is given in the first place. He's giving reasons why he thinks the blog will fail... and nothing else. Likewise, if the details aren't perfect either, how should we improve them? (That question goes towards both itroitnyah and Nine Volt, as well as anyone else unsure of the current foundation we're using at the moment.) GIVE US YOUR KNOWLEDGE SO WE MAY SUCK GOOD IDEAS OUT OF YOUR BRAINS
Well, why don't you guys start by not being passive aggressive (EERY/ITROITNYAH/FREEWAVE/ME) and start getting shit done? Like, try fixing the shit that's making us think the blog won't work.

The point is that you guys need to take initiative too. It's not itroitnyah's blog (that's this) and it's not my blog (that's this, we shouldn't have to come up with ways to fix the problems we've pointed out.

Sorry Freewave, but I think you sort of... lacked justification in your replies. I don't like itroitnyah's attitude any more than you do, but it's not nice to do everything short of telling him to shut up to his face. Now, were he to heckle the project and then say he has no clue how to make it better? Yeah, that's not cool. But as it is, if he has an idea for a better plan, then he needs to say it, and you need to ask him about that before things get unfriendly.
You mean unfriendlier than their interactions already are? Freewave's already halfway to banning the fucker.

So yeah.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby ArisingFlame » 10 Nov 2013 03:57

Calm down guys! Here's a cake!

Image
From what I have read, this has become more of one side vs another than it is about anything blog-wise. But that's just from an outsider new to the topic. All I see is passive-aggressive shit slinging, really. Although, Nine Volt seems to be on the right track. Until y'all turned it towards him and now he's gotta defend himself from the passive-aggressiveness? I though this was supposed to be a community (with differences, yes) that was supportive of each other. But, what do I know? I'm a noob here.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby Nine Volt » 10 Nov 2013 04:06

ArisingFlame wrote:Calm down guys! Here's a cake!

Image
From what I have read, this has become more of one side vs another than it is about anything blog-wise. But that's just from an outsider new to the topic. All I see is passive-aggressive shit slinging, really. Although, Nine Volt seems to be on the right track. Until y'all turned it towards him and now he's gotta defend himself from the passive-aggressiveness? I though this was supposed to be a community (with differences, yes) that was supportive of each other. But, what do I know? I'm a noob here.


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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby ArisingFlame » 10 Nov 2013 04:14

Image
Aside from the arguing, I DO think the blog is a good idea. Y'all just need to have a more open mind to the criticism. Barbed or not. When I see something that is imperfect, I don't always have a solution or suggestion, but I'd rather point it out than leave it unnoticed.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby ArisingFlame » 10 Nov 2013 04:42

eery wrote:Stuff

You didn't eat a slice of the cake, I see.
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Re: Downward Trajectory of Brony Music (New Blog Launch pg 3

Postby Nine Volt » 10 Nov 2013 05:58

eery wrote:
Nine Volt wrote:"Thought out" does not mean "with thought behind it". Thought out means that something has been completely thought through and all realistic scenarios accounted for, which these plans have not been. Ergo, they are not "thought out".


Lol. Not arguing semantics here at all.

No, we're really not. It's an integral part of the original meaning of your sentence and you having the wrong definition fucks up the entire conversation. It's not semantics.

eery wrote:
Nine Volt wrote:Was it, eery? Was it? I don't think it was really that fucking fun.
Well, cool. I thought it was fun. Seeing you all riled up about shit that doesnt matter, I remember that being fun, yeah.
If this is anything, it's not riled up. juss saiyan

eery wrote:
Nine Volt wrote:It's actually pretty fucking relevant to what you meant, eery. You were saying that to indicate that you thought us critics of this blog should stop being "Debbie downers". That we should stop raining on others' parades. I know what you fucking meant and what I said was completely relevant.

Calm down there, big boy. There's only so many times you can say "fucking" to indicate that you're stressing something.
What the fuck did you just fucking say? Am I fucking reading that fucking shit right? What the fucking fuck are you fucking trying fucking to fucking say fucking? ;)
<3

eery wrote:You bringing up shit the mod that said that, shit he did, was COMPLETTELY out of context.
Bringing up said mod's old "saying" in the first place was completely irrelevant because of what the mod also used that saying for. That's what I was trying to convey.


Nine Volt wrote:See, that's exactly the type of passive-aggressive SHIT we don't need in this thread.

Cool. I'll be directly aggressive then. Your remark was shit and uneccecary.

I'm gonna be the bigger man here. It's tough, but I'll manage.

Nine Volt wrote:Yeah, being something doesn't mean that being called that something isn't demeaning. Someone could be acting gayly (as in, like a stereotypical homosexual) and being called a faggot would still be demeaning, right?


What an idiotic comparison. There isn't any prosicusion of being cynical. Do you know what cynism is?
I'm not claiming there's any prosecution of cynics. You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm simply giving an example of a situation in which being called something that you are would be demeaning. A bit of an exaggerated situation, yes, but the point stands.

Nine Volt wrote: And also, what you took Freewave's "stop being cynical" comments as could very well be completely different from what itroitnyah took it as, so thanks for bringing up that completely non-relevant remark! Thanks eery!
Hahaha, what. I'm saying he overreacted, what the fuck is up your butt?
I'm not saying he didn't overreact. I'm just saying that it's all subjective.
Last edited by Nine Volt on 10 Nov 2013 06:06, edited 1 time in total.
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