I can't get my Prog House Sub bass to sound quite right.

[Dabrenn]

Hey guys, Dabrenn here with another question. I'm venturing into the world of Prog House and as I was working, I noticed that I can not get my Sub bass to sound like the big leagues do. It doesn't pump correctly, it doesn't stick out enough, and it doesn't seem to have the power either. If I turn up the volume, it just becomes annoying and drones out the other portions. I just seem have a major problem with mixing.

It's currently an Operator Sin wave patch with a SAW-D wave modifying it.

What am I doing wrong?

Here's a quick little arrangement I put together to demonstrate (it lacks fills), the section at the end is just Kick + Sub bass.

WARNING: The drop volume is way too loud, so prepare for it. sorry >.<



Thank you so much for listening!

[the4thImpulse]

Well first off your whole mix needs a lot of work. Your kick is drowned out by the lead synths, I can hardly hear the snare, the reverb is muddying up the bass signal ect..

To start to fix your bass problem you need to first EQ all the low frequencies out of every other channel beside the basses and kicks. Then adjust the levels of the other tracks so the kick can punch through (side-chaining is a must here, especially with house genres), once the kick and lead synths sound good together then you can bring up the volume of the bass. It should be side-chained to the kick as well to give it the pumping effect, use a more extreme threshold and ratio and mess with the release to give it the desired pumping effect.

[Dabrenn]

Well that took some of the wind out of my sails haha. I was actually thinking this was the most "Professional" sounding track I've managed to produce, albeit quiet convoluted.

Your kick is drowned out by the lead synths,

I guess this settles it, I need to invest in some monitor speakers. Right now I only mix through bass-heavy desktop speakers with a big sub, and some mediocre headphones. I was thinking that the kick actually sounded alright ;(


I will tone down the Leads though. Maybe even take out that saw+White noise synth and just stick with noise.

I can hardly hear the snare,

Totally forgot about the snare -_- Going to have to find a good sample first though.

To start to fix your bass problem you need to first EQ all the low frequencies out of every other channel beside the basses and kicks.

Already done, I think I have too much reverb on that kick and the other bass sounds, like you suggested said earlier.

side-chaining is a must here, especially with house genres

Okay, I've had a lot of confusion with this previously. Right now everything but the top couple octaves of the piano and the squeaky lead is sidechained to the kick. That means the lower Piano, the Air/noise synth, the noise, and the sub bass. Should I really add any side chaining the my lead?

use a more extreme threshold and ratio and mess with the release to give it the desired pumping effect.

http://i.imgur.com/wsplz.png?1 This is my current compressor on the sub. See anything horrible wrong with it?

Ok, I upped the volume on snare/clap (even though its still a really bad sample)

I also downed volume on lead, upped the kick and sub a little, and finally I removed a lot of elements from the song, then added them in again over 4 loops back to where I originally was.

https://soundcloud.com/dabrenn/prog-house-loop-changes

[itroitnyah]

Alright, now you still have the problem with the kick and snare and clap. I can hear them, but they don't cut through the mix enough. My advice, and this works for the kick and snare, would be to clone the kick/snare, assign that clone to a different mixer slot, then add a compressor. Now, COMPRESS THE HELL OUT OF IT, put it on 30:1 ratio or as high as it will go, and put really low attack and low release. The threshold should also be pretty low, as to further compress the hell out of it. Then, add an EQ, and remove all the lower end with a high pass, and increase the high end with a high shelf. The sound itself won't be usable, but if you layer it with the regular kick sample, the kick will cut through your mix like a mother fucking butcher knife through hot butter. Of course, the quality of the kick sample itself also matters a ton. If you haven't already, take some time to make your own samples. You can either use other samples to modify and make your own, or you can try synthesizing your own, but I've never synthesized my own drums before.

The drum cut-through technique can be applied to the snare as well as the kick, as far as I know, and I still have yet to try it with hats or other drums.

As for the subbass, try timing the pumps with the notes of the lead synth better, and that's pretty much all the advice I can offer about the sub bass.

[the4thImpulse]

Well that took some of the wind out of my sails haha. I was actually thinking this was the most "Professional" sounding track I've managed to produce, albeit quiet convoluted.

We've all been there, every track I make is the best track I've made up till that point in my own opinion. Of course my music is still average at best. Keep working at it, all it takes is time and the willingness to learn and admit personal mistakes in ones work. I'm here to help you, not tell you your work sucks.

I guess this settles it, I need to invest in some monitor speakers. Right now I only mix through bass-heavy desktop speakers with a big sub, and some mediocre headphones. I was thinking that the kick actually sounded alright ;(

I will tone down the Leads though. Maybe even take out that saw+White noise synth and just stick with noise.

Be sure to check your mix on as many systems as possible when your in that situation without proper monitors. Also listen to another track of a similar genre to get a better idea of how your speakers react to the signal, aim for a sound close to that reference song (if there's a lot of bass make sure there an equal amount of bass in the your work).

To start to fix your bass problem you need to first EQ all the low frequencies out of every other channel beside the basses and kicks.

Already done, I think I have too much reverb on that kick and the other bass sounds, like you suggested said earlier.

Its best to leave reverb off of anything with bass unless you are going for a rare effect during a transition for ambiance. It will only muddy up the mix and you kick and bass will quickly lack the punch you desire.

side-chaining is a must here, especially with house genres

Okay, I've had a lot of confusion with this previously. Right now everything but the top couple octaves of the piano and the squeaky lead is sidechained to the kick. That means the lower Piano, the Air/noise synth, the noise, and the sub bass. Should I really add any side chaining the my lead?

I side-chain everything, every synth, every hi hat, every sound. If the kick is playing I make sure it can be heard by ducking everything else out of the way of it. Some of it is extreme with high gain reduction, on hi hats and similar elements there is very little gain reduction (no more than 3 dB). Even a little bit can make a noticeable difference in bringing out the kick but you would never tell it was side-chained. I would most definitely side-chain your lead in this track, no doubt about it.

use a more extreme threshold and ratio and mess with the release to give it the desired pumping effect.

http://i.imgur.com/wsplz.png?1 This is my current compressor on the sub. See anything horrible wrong with it?

That looks about normal for a bass side-chain. I would recommend you use the FF1 model setting for side-chaining, it helps remove the click that may be present on a sound with a fast attack. Experiment with those modes with everything you side-chain.

Ok, I upped the volume on snare/clap (even though its still a really bad sample)

I also downed volume on lead, upped the kick and sub a little, and finally I removed a lot of elements from the song, then added them in again over 4 loops back to where I originally was.

It sounds better now, more controlled and in unison. The sub pumping feels out of time, increase the release on the side-chain compressor until it peaks when the lead synth plays off the kick. The lead is still a little loud but the sidechaining will help that. When you bring more of the background elements in in the later part of the track they do muddy up the lead synth a bit. To help fix it I would cut away frequencies on the background stuff and boost those same frequncies a bit on the lead and vise versa, find the frequencies the lead sounds good with and boost those and then do the same for the background stuff (If you have trouble understanding what I mean I can explain it better).

[Dabrenn]

Just revised a couple more things. If you two are still there, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this slightly-revised loop.

My kick is still just weak, Imma have to look up some serious tutorials and find some decent samples that don't cost $40 -_-


https://soundcloud.com/dabrenn/prog-house-revised-main-loop

[Navron]

Operator Sin wave patch with a SAW-D wave modifying it.

With subbass, the simpler it is, the better it is. You're saw wave modifying it is introducing harmonics that won't necessarily be heard, but take away the power and crispness of your subbass.

You can do what you want in the mid-frequencies to tweak the sound of the actual bass, but regarding the 40-60Hz region subbass typically resides in, keep it free of everything else, and just have yourself a nice, clean sine wave.

Here you go: http://dallashodgson.info/articles/Acro ... ubBass.pdf

[the4thImpulse]

Just revised a couple more things. If you two are still there, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this slightly-revised loop.

My kick is still just weak, Imma have to look up some serious tutorials and find some decent samples that don't cost $40 -_-

You are right, your kick is weak. Better samples can fix that, yes. Layering multiple kicks together would help immensely too. I always use at least two kick samples; one for the subby chest punch, the other for the low to mids.

In your track here you could benefit from more sidechaining with the lead, it will help the kick shine through. It doesn't need to be pumping like the bass is, even a couple dB of gain reduction can go a long way in bring out the kick.

Another thing you want to watch out for is phasing, the kick and bass could be canceling each other out, even a kick with another layered kick can cause horrible cancellation. Its worth trying to reverse the phase on either the kick or bass (not both), you can also create a different 'tone' for the kick by doing this.