Key changing

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Key changing

Postby General Mumble » 25 Jul 2011 12:25

So I'm almost done with my remix for Round III, aside from tweaks.

One major tweak I want to pull off is a key change for the final chorus. What is the best way to go about this in FL STUDIO? Yes, notes can all be moved up and down, but I'm using a pretty long sample in my remix, and need to change the pitch of that nicely aswell. Using the master pitch adjust slider with an automation clip sounds fairly shoddy, at least how I've used it

So basically, how do I success a key change? Is there a quick process? A long process? Do I need a hint that the key will change just before the change?
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Re: Key changing

Postby FoozogzPepperBrony » 25 Jul 2011 12:44

In my ascot mix, I keychanged the original sample in audacity. Maybe you could try that.
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Re: Key changing

Postby Andy Feelin » 25 Jul 2011 13:32

There is some crazy way to do this in FL but the quick way is to use audacity or whatever.
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Re: Key changing

Postby General Mumble » 25 Jul 2011 13:45

Whichever has the best effect and doesn't buck the quality. I'll try Audacity, then.
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Re: Key changing

Postby General Mumble » 25 Jul 2011 14:12

Okay, it still sounds all too sudden. Maybe the key change just isn't the right choice for the song, or maybe I need a hint before it comes in, maybe I need to take it out completely.

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Re: Key changing

Postby Bagpipe Brony » 25 Jul 2011 14:15

Well how far are you changing the key? If for example your song is in D minor and you change it to D# minor you're gonna hear a hell of a differance. The slicker way to change keys is in fourths or fifths. They sound more natural. Unless of course some of your sounds can't go that high w/o sounding horrible.
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Re: Key changing

Postby General Mumble » 25 Jul 2011 14:56

Not very far at all now, which sounds a lot better. I need to stop listening to the song for twenty minutes or something. Usually after that, I'll spot an error when I hear it.

(I'll be honest, I don't know what key I've taken it up to, it's just up a little... ><)
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Re: Key changing

Postby Andy Feelin » 26 Jul 2011 06:11

You should know what is the final key.
You should not change it to D#/2 lol
Also there must be some transition sequence,not just simple change. For example you have D minor song, so before key change you can do A major then A# major and then D# minor.
BTW I don't remember any song that has a key change in fourth or fifth. Usually it is half tone or 1 tone.
May be you could post an excerpt here?
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Re: Key changing

Postby Dr_Dissonance » 26 Jul 2011 07:45

Andy Feelin wrote:You should know what is the final key.
You should not change it to D#/2 lol
Also there must be some transition sequence,not just simple change. For example you have D minor song, so before key change you can do A major then A# major and then D# minor.
BTW I don't remember any song that has a key change in fourth or fifth. Usually it is half tone or 1 tone.
May be you could post an excerpt here?


Key changes in a fourth or fifth are THE most common key change! You did one yourself just then when you said to go from A# major to D# minor. A# - D# = a fourth up, a fifth down.

For an example, listen to any piece written in a classical style, or any kind of orchestral music.



Example above: There are LOTS of key changes here, but an example of a key change to the fifth occurs at 2.00-2.20.
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Re: Key changing

Postby Andy Feelin » 26 Jul 2011 08:51

Dr_Dissonance wrote:Key changes in a fourth or fifth are THE most common key change! You did one yourself just then when you said to go from A# major to D# minor. A# - D# = a fourth up, a fifth down.

I think General Mumble needs different thing.
If I understand correct, the issue is as follows: the entire song is written in one key, let's say, D minor, and he wants to make the final chorus in different key, for example D# minor.
So if the chord progression in chorus is initially, for example, Dm F Gm A; final chorus will have D#m F# G#m A# if we shift half tone up.
This is how I understand "key change for the final chorus".
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Re: Key changing

Postby Dr_Dissonance » 26 Jul 2011 09:11

Andy Feelin wrote:I think General Mumble needs different thing.
If I understand correct, the issue is as follows: the entire song is written in one key, let's say, D minor, and he wants to make the final chorus in different key, for example D# minor.
So if the chord progression in chorus is initially, for example, Dm F Gm A; final chorus will have D#m F# G#m A# if we shift half tone up.
This is how I understand "key change for the final chorus".


Well yes, you're right, but the problem was that it sounded weird. Whether that's because of the new key or because of his method is something we should ask him...
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But my point with the fourth or fifth change is what Bagpipe said:
Bagpipe Brony wrote:The slicker way to change keys is in fourths or fifths. They sound more natural. Unless of course some of your sounds can't go that high w/o sounding horrible.


Fourth and fifth key changes flow much better, so using a semitone (half step) change could possibly be a reason for the:
General Mumble wrote:it still sounds all too sudden.
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Re: Key changing

Postby Andy Feelin » 26 Jul 2011 10:10

Semitone or tone shift is more common in pop/rock music than fourth or fifth AFAIK. It sounds weird only when you do it wrong way and/or in wrong place.
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Re: Key changing

Postby General Mumble » 26 Jul 2011 10:40

That example was a very slow key change, and while it is helpful in some respects, I do need my keychange to be more sudden.

As much as the song irritates me, it's a good example: Chain Reaction by Diana Ross pretty much key changes almost twice for each chorus, and fairly suddenly.
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Re: Key changing

Postby General Mumble » 26 Jul 2011 10:43

I think I may have pulled it off. I don't know what key I've gone up to, but I've given a small hint before it starts, and it sounds right now, I think.

Executed like a real amateur.

That said, all this talk is really helping, for if I want to do it again, because it was a nice challenge.
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Re: Key changing

Postby Andy Feelin » 26 Jul 2011 11:02

May be you post it here, or somewhere else? I am now curious to hear it!
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Re: Key changing

Postby General Mumble » 26 Jul 2011 12:52

Nope, it's my Remix War III entry, so no lisnin' 'til the 30th ;)
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Re: Key changing

Postby Circuitfry » 29 Jul 2011 12:33

FoozogzPepperBrony wrote:In my ascot mix, I keychanged the original sample in audacity. Maybe you could try that.

Now why would you do that when in LMMS you can use the Automation Editor to change the whole pitch of the song by semitones rather than floating point values?
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Re: Key changing

Postby FoozogzPepperBrony » 30 Jul 2011 10:05

Circuitfry wrote:
FoozogzPepperBrony wrote:In my ascot mix, I keychanged the original sample in audacity. Maybe you could try that.

Now why would you do that when in LMMS you can use the Automation Editor to change the whole pitch of the song by semitones rather than floating point values?


Better quality control in audacity. Also, I think the sample gets sped up a bit.
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