A rant/argument against software piracy

[Nine Volt]

The problem I see with this 'wait your turn' thing is that not all of us are content with using often inferior products when we could be using the same things as a lot of pros use. Yes, I suppose limiting yourself could lead to being more creative, but more often I think it would lead to using the same sounds over and over because of laziness and lack of options. Plus, if every amateur or novice producer was using the same limited variety of synths, the amateur music world would be dominated by basic and uncreative shitty music.

If your not content to make music with what you've got then I strongly believe you have the wrong mindset going into music. Music is meant to be enjoyed both by the listener and the producer, if the producer (when they first start out) can't enjoy making music because they don't have the expensive software should learn to be content with what they got. That's what I learned, to be content with all I had. Pirating (in my example in this thread) is the opposite of content, its the mindset that what I have isn't enough so I will 'cheat the system' to get what I want faster then working for what I want.

If you are not willing to work a job to pay for your music software then you don't deserve the software your pirating. If you can't work a job because your too young I'm sorry, that's the way this world is and if you start pirating you will be addicted to it and it will ruin your career at some point.

I think we should just agree to disagree.
Again, I'm not saying that you're wrong, in fact I think you're quite right. But don't ever say I'm not willing to work for this, music means a lot more to me then I think you think. But yes, I'm too young to work a job and that does just kinda suck for me, doesn't it?
Also, I just want to say that the only thing I've pirated and actually enjoyed using was Reason, which is a DAW, not a synth or effect.

Ugh, I'll just stop trying to justify pirating. I'll probably get sucked back into this thread at some point, but I'm willing to agree to disagree if you are, because clearly we aren't doing a thing to change each others opinions :3

[Lavender_Harmony]

I hate everyone trying to justify why they pirate stuff. Weh it's too expensive. Guess what.

http://www.facebook.com/freshlysqueezed ... 9280126540

Congratulations. Enjoy your sample packs.

[Nine Volt]

I don't like to argue with mods because they can ban me.

[the4thImpulse]

Ugh, I'll just stop trying to justify pirating. I'll probably get sucked back into this thread at some point, but I'm willing to agree to disagree if you are, because clearly we aren't doing a thing to change each others opinions :3

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion on pirating, I'm trying (and it appears to be failing) to help the new kids who think pirating will help them produce better music. Maybe that's all I should've said this whole time to avoid all of this, but its too late. I'm talking to those that turn to pirating the best software when they have not drilled the foundations into their head yet. They think the best will help them when it will only make it worse (yes they can get through it but its far more beneficial for them to take their time and build the foundations).

Thats all I am arguing in this thread. Stop building the fancy house when your foundation is barley stable. When your ready for the paid software you will find/have the means to get it the right way.

[Nine Volt]

Ugh, I'll just stop trying to justify pirating. I'll probably get sucked back into this thread at some point, but I'm willing to agree to disagree if you are, because clearly we aren't doing a thing to change each others opinions :3

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion on pirating, I'm trying (and it appears to be failing) to help the new kids who think pirating will help them produce better music. Maybe that's all I should've said this whole time to avoid all of this, but its too late. I'm talking to those that turn to pirating the best software when they have not drilled the foundations into their head yet. They think the best will help them when it will only make it worse (yes they can get through it but its far more beneficial for them to take their time and build the foundations).

Thats all I am arguing in this thread. Stop building the fancy house when your foundation is barley stable. When your ready for the paid software you will find/have the means to get it the right way.

Ohhhhhhhhh
I get it now :3

I thought you were trying to label all piraters as terrible people who pirate just because they're impatient or lazy (unless that's what you were doing).

That. That I completely agree with.

[Foxtrot89]

I'm trying (and it appears to be failing) to help the new kids who think pirating will help them produce better music.

The problem is that you said a bunch of false blanket statements. You basically said "if you steal stuff, you'll be a crumby musician who puts no effort into their writing." It's just not 100% true.

Full fledged pirating only needs one argument against it, and that can be summed up by the link that Lavender just posted.

For what it's worth, I've decided that I'm going against further pirating for the simple fact that no matter how justified I think I personally am, (and if everyone pirated like I do, there would be no issue.) I don't want to feed into the stress that people have to go through to get illegal links and stuff taken down.

My life has enough stress in it, I don't need to be giving somebody else the same stress. I own enough legal software where it's not needed and I know enough people in the industry where if I want to try something out I probably could anyway.

[Sonarch]

Being one of the "new kids" to music myself, I can see what drives some of them to pirating the big fancy expensive software, at least if they're like me. I was so new to music I really had no idea how anything worked at all, the only reason I had a daw was because my parents got it for me for Christmas last year. So I came here, and learned most of what I know from reading the stuff you all post, but I really didn't know what I was doing. I probably still don't. I mean, it took a lot of asking around and looking stuff up to figure out that piano roll and midi notes were how one could tell their daw what to play. A lot of times I hear about these big name synths like Massive, and I thought was something I needed to make music, because my daw doesn't seem to have come with any synths. Basically, I didn't know there was all sorts of freeware that people like me could use to learn how the stuff works. I don't regret buying Massive, I plan on using it extensively once I learn to use it, but I suppose my point is that some of the newbies might get the idea that they need an expensive synth or something to be able to make any music, so they pirate it because of the various reasons you all listed, like lack of money, being too young, impatience, laziness, etc... Not that i'm defending that, I haven't pirated anything :3

Speaking of all that stuff, there must be a thread in here for good freeware and stuff, right?

[the4thImpulse]

Speaking of all that stuff, there must be a thread in here for good freeware and stuff, right?

There's been a few threads around MLR but the admin here never stickies them (I wish the mods could sticky stuff). They never really took off but you will find a few links in each one. I will direct you to another site for a larger list of freeware stuff. If you ever think "hey, I kinda want a crazy free delay flanger effect" then it never hurts to just google that and put freeware at the end, I have found a few cool freeware vsts that way.

The problem is that you said a bunch of false blanket statements. You basically said "if you steal stuff, you'll be a crumby musician who puts no effort into their writing." It's just not 100% true.

You are twisting my words so much. I never said "if you steal stuff, you'll be a crumby musician who puts no effort into their writing", if that's how you understood my posts then I'm sorry but you are mistaken here. I don't believe I need to be anymore clear then I was (and I don't think I could get much more clear).

[Sonarch]

Advice and helpful link

Thanks!

[itroitnyah]

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion on pirating, I'm trying (and it appears to be failing) to help the new kids who think pirating will help them produce better music.

I remember those days, lol. I remember when I was so excited to buy massive on the 50% sale they had a couple of months ago (the bass invaders one, not the recent thanksgiving one), because I thought that my music would get exponentially better

[cloudshovit]

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion on pirating, I'm trying (and it appears to be failing) to help the new kids who think pirating will help them produce better music.

I remember those days, lol. I remember when I was so excited to buy massive on the 50% sale they had a couple of months ago (the bass invaders one, not the recent thanksgiving one), because I thought that my music would get exponentially better

you really hit home with me about taking time and that not investing on something software equals not having enough dedication to learn. I think thats true. You can spend countless hours trawling the web for a pirated version of the VST that you "think" you need to make the music you want to make. Disregarding the fact that a lot of these VSTs are already in your DAW for free. Your production is gonna suffer from waiting for the hottest plugin and the scrolling to all the presets without even knowing more about how they were made as well as what that synth is capable of doing. I have seen a lot of musicians posting on forums years before they got big asking for stuff. For the Fruity Loops forum for example, you can read Madeon asking people way before hitting big. And the synths he uses are mostly free except for Harmles. And I am sure that that kid bought it cause you can't post on the forum without purchasing the product. So yeah people here that simply don't get what you are saying are probably too young or too ignorant.

Yes you will forever be stuck with that Vengeance preset you use in Massive because what you all deserve. NI and Vengeance btw are overrated, overhyped and most importantly overpriced.

[cloudshovit]

BTW anybody know how I can get that CM Studio stuff or how there download system works? I'm from Philippines and I don't even live in the capital city so getting my hands on the DVD is out of the question but buying their PDF entitles you to get the DVD content.

[FlyingNinjaBannanas]

Before I bring my argument to this thread, there are a couple of things I would like to point out.

I am, or was, a person who pirated everything. I pirated FL Studio 10, Ableton Suite 9, Massive, and many, many other VST and programs. I would say I pirated over 5000$ of software in my time. Now, before you say anything, I am not endorsing pirating, or trying to justify that people should pirate whatever they want. I am just here to justify my opinion and my situation which caused this dilemma.

I have been trying, or failing, to make music for the past 3 years. I pirated software in my earlier years to, basically demo it. As others have said, I've used the pirate as an extended demo, and I have a few reasons why.

1. I am 15. I'm not trying to use that as an excuse. Rather, it would be more of a pre-cursor to my other reasons.

2. My family is incredibly poor. My mom is the only one working, and I barely get enough money to get anything outside of Christmas. Which is also going this year as all my family can afford me is a new set of Headphones for personal use, as I don't take my nice pair out of my house.

3. A job is out of the question. I have to keep my grades at High A's, which takes up a good amount of my free time. Plus the fact that I can not drive as of right now, which is a major limit since I live 8 miles out of the nearest town, and can't afford a bike or take the time to walk.

4. My computer is literally awful. For me to even think about creating a full song with any major DAW or VSTi I would have to sprinkle Pixie Dust on my computer, and Pixies are not a common sight. Programs like Famitracker are out of the question as I do not like to make chip-tunes, and don't honest want to figure it out after the knowledge I've accrued outside of trackers, like synthesis methods and Music Theory. While there are some lighter CPU plugins out there, by the time I'm done setting up the beginning of a song, my CPU is already near 40%. Anymore would cause FL to stutter and crash. While there are other DAWs, this leads to my next reason.

5. Internet. Living 8 miles out of the nearest town. I lack good internet service. Right now it has improved. 20 GB bandwidth and 70 kps speed, both of which I split with my dad. Downloading any of the larger libraries at my house is out of the question. I could sacrifice, but if it raises my bandwidth too high, I will get in trouble and get grounded. Which is not very pleasant.

6. Addictions. This was especially true years ago, but has dimmed majorly over the last year. I had a major addiction to video games. While this still exists in a diminished form, it affects me. The call of Borderlands 2 sometimes wins out against the call of anything productive, and that hinders me. While, after reading this thread, this is something I plan on fixing. Back then, I did not know.

I could go on, but I think I overdid it enough as it is. Now to a real argument/point.

If your not content to make music with what you've got then I strongly believe you have the wrong mindset going into music. Music is meant to be enjoyed both by the listener and the producer, if the producer (when they first start out) can't enjoy making music because they don't have the expensive software should learn to be content with what they got. That's what I learned, to be content with all I had. Pirating (in my example in this thread) is the opposite of content, its the mindset that what I have isn't enough so I will 'cheat the system' to get what I want faster then working for what I want.

If you are not willing to work a job to pay for your music software then you don't deserve the software your pirating. If you can't work a job because your too young I'm sorry, that's the way this world is and if you start pirating you will be addicted to it and it will ruin your career at some point.

I agree, but mostly. There are only two sentences which I do not agree on.

If your not content to make music with what you've got then I strongly believe you have the wrong mindset going into music.

This is something that I have to disagree with. I'm most likely missing the point here, but there are exception to every rule, and this one, is no exception. I am content to make music, mind you, and I do try to. But I am limited by external factors, which I could fix with effort, but I strongly believe it's not the right time. As in, I have problems, but fixing them right now would be unconventional to me becoming a musician. I am not content with what I have, but this one, I am going to fix. I'm getting a new computer in the next year, which will cost 800-1200 dollars. That I can and am fixing. I would pay for half the stuff I pirated, but I need to make sure I can use it properly and efficiently before dumping money that I don't have. If I can't run it, then it would collect space.

If you can't work a job because your too young I'm sorry, that's the way this world is and if you start pirating you will be addicted to it and it will ruin your career at some point.

This is an assumption. Just because you've pirated one, or in my case many, does not mean you will get addicted to it. At least, people like me. I only pirated because I though I had little choice in the matter. Which at the time, I did. I was too ignorant and lazy to realize that there are more than two options. I didn't even know freeware plugins existed, or even freeware DAWs (Really wish I would've know that). But over time, I learned, and got over it. I rarely, if ever, pirate anymore. The only time I would ever consider pirating is if it has a constricting demo (When oscillators are blocked off, when audio cuts off at an abrupt rate, 30 seconds, etc). Even then I consider many more factor before I do so. Because I know that it's stealing, illegal, and that there are more options. I currently have no pirated programs on my computer (Except one program that I currently can not find a copy off anywhere, but I don't use it anyway, I keep it to remember that it exists. As I tend to delete Text files and reminders after time). In short, they do not cause addiction except to some and they will not ruin your career if you're smart about it and delete them before you become a professional musician.

As I said above, I currently have only one program on my computer that is pirated (Which is morally killing me right now). I also now, thanks to my pirating, have a few select programs that I will be buying. I am no longer a pirate in morals. Though I do not endorse or attack pirating. I see both sides and choose to be neutral. I guess you could say I'm trying to redeem myself. But that's a bit of a contradiction.

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion on pirating, I'm trying (and it appears to be failing) to help the new kids who think pirating will help them produce better music.

Agreed. Pirating software does not make you better. It takes skill, patience, and for me, lots of Mountain Dew (kidding). But seriously, I speak from experience here. While software you pay for can often be better than the free stuff, it is not always this way. I've encountered free software that has blown my mind. (A.K.A Crystal, Synth1, Famitracker) Yet I've encountered the same in pirate. Gladiator would be one (Love this synth to death, will buy it) and Synplant another (Take my money). But overall, I agree, it will not help in the long term, possibly in the short, but not the long.

There are probably mistakes in this post, as this is really my first post of this magnitude. I know there are problems with my reasoning. But his is my point, and if I could express it clearer and point out every one of it's flaws I would. There is only one way I can end this post.

:3

That is all.

[the4thImpulse]

If your not content to make music with what you've got then I strongly believe you have the wrong mindset going into music.

This is something that I have to disagree with. I'm most likely missing the point here, but there are exception to every rule, and this one, is no exception. I am content to make music, mind you, and I do try to. But I am limited by external factors, which I could fix with effort, but I strongly believe it's not the right time. As in, I have problems, but fixing them right now would be unconventional to me becoming a musician. I am not content with what I have, but this one, I am going to fix. I'm getting a new computer in the next year, which will cost 800-1200 dollars. That I can and am fixing. I would pay for half the stuff I pirated, but I need to make sure I can use it properly and efficiently before dumping money that I don't have. If I can't run it, then it would collect space.

If you can't work a job because your too young I'm sorry, that's the way this world is and if you start pirating you will be addicted to it and it will ruin your career at some point.

This is an assumption. Just because you've pirated one, or in my case many, does not mean you will get addicted to it. At least, people like me. I only pirated because I though I had little choice in the matter. Which at the time, I did. I was too ignorant and lazy to realize that there are more than two options. I didn't even know freeware plugins existed, or even freeware DAWs (Really wish I would've know that). But over time, I learned, and got over it. I rarely, if ever, pirate anymore. The only time I would ever consider pirating is if it has a constricting demo (When oscillators are blocked off, when audio cuts off at an abrupt rate, 30 seconds, etc). Even then I consider many more factor before I do so. Because I know that it's stealing, illegal, and that there are more options. I currently have no pirated programs on my computer (Except one program that I currently can not find a copy off anywhere, but I don't use it anyway, I keep it to remember that it exists. As I tend to delete Text files and reminders after time). In short, they do not cause addiction except to some and they will not ruin your career if you're smart about it and delete them before you become a professional musician.

Like I said early on in the thread I didn't want to write pages upon pages listing every possible scenario so your right I was assuming when I wrote that. I still do believe that it is true a majority of the time especially with the younger and less mature kids, adults have a greater chance to control their actions but everyone still makes mistakes. Thanks for your post.

BTW anybody know how I can get that CM Studio stuff or how there download system works? I'm from Philippines and I don't even live in the capital city so getting my hands on the DVD is out of the question but buying their PDF entitles you to get the DVD content.

I have always just bought the magazine and used the included DVD, I would imagine there's a spot on their website to download them after buying the PDF version.

[Stars In Autumn]

Okay, sorry to the OP for derailing his topic. I agree with you in the sense if you are forced to work with a tools due to limited resources, you are more likely to get more out of the tool. This isn't true in every case, of course, but I would say generally it is true.

As for all of you attempting to justify your reasons for pirating... well... you're wrong. I'm sorry, I don't care if you are too young, too poor, believe it hurts no one, believe it isn't stealing due to being digital data, hate copyright law, hate big companies, hate government, wouldn't buy it anyways, just want to test the software, whatever. Plenty of good articles and arguments have been posted in this topic about that.

I'm not saying you're a horrible person for pirating, or that you are equivalent to someone who literally breaks into stores and steals things, but I do want to try and remove the veil from your eyes and see that piracy is still a form of theft. It still hurts the people who put work into the software. And it is disrespectful.

Anyways, that's the last I'll post about it in this topic. Message me if you still want to discuss it.

[FlyingNinjaBannanas]

I'm not saying you're a horrible person for pirating, or that you are equivalent to someone who literally breaks into stores and steals things, but I do want to try and remove the veil from your eyes and see that piracy is still a form of theft. It still hurts the people who put work into the software. And it is disrespectful.

Which is why I stopped. But seriously, I agree. Looking at the previously linked article and various others, I realized quite a while ago that it does have an effect. After serious moral considerations and a decent amount of maturing, I stopped. I know I've done disrespectful things, I know I've stole. I can accept that. I guess I'm one of the few. Hopefully I'm wrong on that one, though I know I'm right. Thank you for your posts, even though this one didn't add much accept agreeing and restating what was already said.

[Nine Volt]

I'm not saying you're a horrible person for pirating, or that you are equivalent to someone who literally breaks into stores and steals things, but I do want to try and remove the veil from your eyes and see that piracy is still a form of theft. It still hurts the people who put work into the software. And it is disrespectful.

Which is why I stopped. But seriously, I agree. Looking at the previously linked article and various others, I realized quite a while ago that it does have an effect. After serious moral considerations and a decent amount of maturing, I stopped. I know I've done disrespectful things, I know I've stole. I can accept that. I guess I'm one of the few. Hopefully I'm wrong on that one, though I know I'm right. Thank you for your posts, even though this one didn't add much accept agreeing and restating what was already said.

You and me both.

[Stars In Autumn]

Haha, I lied, this is my last post.

Locking thread per request. As a reminder, please do not encourage piracy here on MLR or share links to pirated material.